FDA rules announced

[deathmetal]

We live in the age of apathy and crony capitalism, a deadly combination.

Just part of the decline.
We either choose to be good, or... well, you see the rest.
Apologies to Mr. Kant.

 

[brian64]

Only if enough people on both the left and the right finally figure out that what they call crony capitalism and what they call socialism are one and the same will we ever have a chance for positive change.

 

[deathmetal]

crony capitalism and what they call socialism are one and the same

That's something for me to ponder. Over a fat bowl of Prince Albert (yes, I'm a philistine) no doubt.

 

[prairiedruid]

So how do we go forward???
Torches and pitchforks sound great but that means I'll end up some bad man's roommate/playmate at the local pokey.
Make the logical argument that this is an over reach by the FDA? This was tried during the comment period and that didn't work out.
Congressional action? This is probably our best chance of some success. Can we get Congress to jerk the FDA's chain and stop this? Probably not completely but maybe get some modifications of the FDA rules such as exemptions for premium cigars and pipe tobacco. At the very least I believe we can sway Congress to set the effective date for the rules to be 2016 and not 2007 as it is currently. That would be some help to the industry. We need to focus on the loss of jobs and businesses that these regulations will cause. To do that we need information....how many jobs will be effected? Legislative districts these jobs/businesses are located and who their representatives/senators are.
We need information, organization, and effort to have any hope of success. What do you think/suggest?

 

[phil67]

Not that it means anything now as the ball is already rolling but it's quite obvious, and probably already stated, that the issue of e-cigs is what got all of this insanity started. Is the FDA fearful that that younger people who are now vaping bubblegum flavored e-cig juice will eventually move up to pipe smoking with Molto Dolce, and or flavored cigars?

 

[jacks6]

Is the FDA fearful that that younger people who are now vaping bubblegum flavored e-cig juice will eventually move up to pipe smoking with Molto Dolce, and or flavored cigars?

IT'S A GATEWAY DRUG!! :roll: :twisted:

 

[plateauguy]

Does anyone see the irony that pot is becoming legal in more and more states, while the "war" on tobacco is heating up?
We've been expecting more regulations on pipe tobacco for a while, but this is like picking the knat shit out of the pepper. PS, glad to be back.

 

[brian64]

crony capitalism and what they call socialism are one and the same

That's something for me to ponder. Over a fat bowl of Prince Albert (yes, I'm a philistine) no doubt.

Perhaps not the same in theory, but the same in practice. In other words, whether the government runs the corporations or the corporations run the government, the net result is the same: a revolving door between the corporate boardrooms and the regulatory agencies that ultimately results in organized crime.

 

[deathmetal]

@plateauguy:

Does anyone see the irony that pot is becoming legal in more and more states, while the "war" on tobacco is heating up?

People love a scapegoat. Society falls apart like the Greeks did, blame the Jews; people behaving like fools with mind-bending drugs, blame tobacco.
@brian64:

In other words, whether the government runs the corporations or the corporations run the government, the net result is the same: a revolving door between the corporate boardrooms and the regulatory agencies that ultimately results in organized crime.

This reminds me of the problem of rules.
Parent: "Jimmy, Rule #1 is that you cannot torment your sister with firecrackers."
"OK," says Jimmy. He runs off and begins tormenting her with a firehose, whips, bb guns, loudspeakers, and anything else he can find.

 

[checotah]

At one time there was this concept of innocent until proven guilty. Sad that has been abandoned to the greater good of the All Knowing Government.

 

[deathmetal]

The failure of human moral agents to observe the moral law is symptomatic of a character or disposition (Gesinnung) that has been corrupted by an innate propensity to evil, which is to subordinate the moral law to self-conceit. Because this propensity corrupts an agent’s character as a whole, and is the innate “source” of every other evil deed, it may be considered “radical.”
http://www.iep.utm.edu/rad-evil/

 

[brian64]

This reminds me of the problem of rules.
Parent: "Jimmy, Rule #1 is that you cannot torment your sister with firecrackers."
"OK," says Jimmy. He runs off and begins tormenting her with a firehose, whips, bb guns, loudspeakers, and anything else he can find.

Yes very true...government has done just that with the rules it's supposed to be subject to. At least at the time of alcohol prohibition it was understood that it required a constitutional amendment in order for the government to obtain that authority. No such understanding exists any more. Most Americans seem to accept the idea that the feds can regulate and/or outlaw anything they want to. The question of Constitutional authority is never even raised any more.

 

[jacks6]

Meanwhile there are other things harming our bodies that aren't 100% a choice because we cant always identify them (they stuck down the bill for that)... like the shit they put into food nowadays...
GMOs. Antibiotics. etc.

 

[phil67]

This may have been mentioned already, but what is really paradoxical and beyond any reasonable sense to me is that Washington State has legalized recreational marijuana but will not allow tobacco to be shipped there... WTF!

 

[deathmetal]

Most Americans seem to accept the idea that the feds can regulate and/or outlaw anything they want to.

People like the feeling of being watched over by a benevolent superstate. That's my only explanation.
In the meantime, anything "unpopular" -- like tobacco -- is helpless because it cannot bring in the votes.

 

[smokeyweb]

First independent lawsuit (of what I assume will be many) was filed yesterday by one of the Giants of the vape industry. Not sure if this was a wise strategic move or not, but the lawsuit has been filed. The main fight appears to be changing the predicate date of 2007. As a consumer of pipes and cigars, I would encourage membership to Cigar Rights of America. If you wish not to do that, at least visit their website and follow the instructions to petition congress... Takes about 3 minutes. Join the fight to protect our right to enjoy premium tobacco products!!!

 

[deathmetal]

For context:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3586858/Screw-generation-Anonymous-congressman-writes-tell-slams-nation-naive-self-absorbed-sheep-admits-never-reads-bills-votes-on.html

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Can you provide a link to that petition site? I totally suck at finding anything on this interweb thingy.

While I think that most of this thread is hand-wringing and venting to the choir, it is good to see and take every possible action. As far as worrying, phhht, worrying never accomplished anything positive. Do what you can, and don't worry about the rest.

 

[perdurabo]

Alrighty, might have some positive Loop holes to think about.
This attacks the grandfathered in dates:
LoopHole Cornell And Diehl Example: in this case Small Batch The Beast is used. As long as there is a date, stating the founding of the company, Below the name of the said company, Then Obviously the said tin of tobacco would fall under the grandfathered date; so forth and so on.
Cornell &Diehl

Since 1979

Small Batch The Beast
The Above example would qualify the tobacco to be exempt from the new FDA rule.
Boys and Girls find me proof, in the rules, that his wouldn't work. I dare you.
I sat back and watched this type of labeling issue unfold with Absinthe and the FDA. Don't see why this couldn't work.

 

[jacks6]

The grandfathered dates only applies to blends - not companies