FDA rules announced

[perdurabo]

How long 'til this one gets shut down? ::
If Big Tobacco benefits....typical. The way I understand this, Pease, C&D, McClelland, Russ etc....have access to a more variety of tobacco because of Big tobacco. The pipe blenders are nats around the cattle so to speak.
Capitalism is nowhere in the game. What you have is big business in bed with government one way or the other, and tons of special interest groups. That's not free market. At the end of the day, no government attaché can regulate private business. If I owned a private tobacco business, I'd take the capital that the FDA thinks it's going to get from me, and invest in a protection agency. Case solved. When that happens across the board, and every business and its stock holders realize that kind of Liberty, then things would change. That would mean the IRS agent would have to come and be escorted to my desk to receive his/her check. Charming, huh.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

I have done a little more research and it would appear that the 180 day requirement does not in fact apply to the substantial equivalence pathway, but only applies to the incredibly expensive and burdensome pre-market clearance pathway. There is no firm time period for the SE pathway, based on my research. I would be interested to know if others have different information, but this is what I have been told.
In fact, the SE pathway also exists for cigarettes and has existed going back to the time that the FDA began to regulate cigarettes. In fact, the FDA has recieved thousands of applications to bless cigarettes under the SE pathway but has only approved a handful, leaving the rest in limbo.
If this is how it will work for pipe tobacco, I would be nervous -- very nervous.

 

[brian64]

In many regards its serves the interests of 'Big Tobacco' as this piece of legal flatulence puts every small player out of the game so now you will be confronted by tobacco A, B and C as offered by Big Tobacco, no choice as no competition exists. Furthermore as a sweetener they are handed the whole e-cigarette market as a monopoly as only they can afford the expensive testing which is in reality a hidden pay off to the government for delivering said monopoly.

Exactly...that is how it always works. The federal regulatory agencies are always in bed with the big corporations and the banks that own them...and it's always small business that gets the shaft. And free-market capitalism always gets blamed for the evils of monopoly-capitalism. Then the big money interests promote socialism as the answer because it only creates more centralized government control, which is exactly what the "owners" want. They want a rigged game...not free-market competition.

 

[deathmetal]

These two comments stuck with me:

Overthrowing Tyranny isn't violence

talk about rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Commonsense realism says a few disturbing things:
1. Government is a business because people are paid for being involved in it.

2. Business always looks for new ways to bring in revenue.

3. The best products are cheaply purchased by the seller, modified, and then resold at high cost.

4. Products can be intangible, like "peace of mind."
For the rest, I'd just read The Republic.

 

[csharp]

monstersinc
gremlins

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Whether or not this FDA stuff will have a direct negative impact on us or not, it definitely has had a positive effect on the online retailers, which will hurt us all in turn. Many of the popular blends and cheaper tins are all sold out and backordered. Many are sold out at this very moment. Now that people who weren't cellaring before, have gotten into the game, which will disrupt being able to find many blends for a while.
Pisses me off that these lackadaisical dreamers were all setting around thinking that cellaring was such a sucker thing to do will now be working to drive up demand, which will also eventually drive up prices. :::sigh::: C'est la vie
So, you will be asking us questions about cellaring. My suggestion is to use cardboard boxes and packing tape. If you have to ask about jars one more freaking time... then store it in the trunk of your car for all I care. ::

 

[perdurabo]

Love it,Cosmic.

 

[jefff]

Most of my favorite blends are Pre 2007. And I don't smoke aromatics so I am not going to panic.
I'll just continue to cellar as I have always done.

 

[perdurabo]

Hell let's help the guys make some money, and keep them busy. Surprised the Green Looney Left hasn't come to the defense of the tobacco groups. Oh yea, there the ones going after them, my bad. :rofl:

 

[perdurabo]

I'm with Jeff 100%.

 

[brian64]

Surprised the Green Looney Left hasn't come to the defense of the tobacco groups.

The left is no longer green. The entire environmentalist movement has been co-opted by the hoax of anthropogenic global warming. That's the only thing you ever hear about from them any more...even though there are very real and very serious environmental problems that need to be addressed, but have all been abandoned in favor of a lie.
There is a direct connection with this thread topic as well, which is the politicization of science. It's amazing what you can get the sheep to believe once you have the men in white lab coats pushing your agenda.

 

[pappymac]

Cosmic, on the other hand, those of who only smoke Prince Albert, SWR, Carter Hall, etc. Will be asking the rest of us what all the fuss is about.

 

[jacks6]

I joined this forum to read exactly this. I've been looking at this since last week trying to figure out what this means for pipe tobacco and I'm damn well confused. There are plenty of specifics and then plenty of areas where the terminology is extremely vague. My conjecture is that Phillip Morris has been pushing for this legislation for some time - the more tobacco they get OUT of the market - the more of a stronghold they have with their cigarettes. I think the majority of post 2007 blends are going to be lost. The FDA hasn't approved a single new cigarette since the last legislation - what makes you think they're going to treat pipe tobacco, cigars, or vape any differently?

 

[whitecloud]

I would think they could fight and say that a certain number of "traditional blending materials" would be acceptable. Therefore, pipe tobacco will have a continuum from Blending components to mixtures of each that have have been around for years. The idea of a cutoff at 2007 is arbitrary and should be questioned. If rules are made just so a government agency can make money that should be thrown out, too.

 

[jacks6]

The cigarette companies could have said that too. After all, they're mostly comprised of virginia, burley, and oriental. The problem with pipe tobacco is there are numerous casings and toppings and what may have been used in a recipe 10 years ago - may not be whats being used today.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

My conjecture is that Phillip Morris has been pushing for this legislation for some time

This is exactly it. Big cigarette has been fighting the pipe and cigar industry for years. Not that we create a competition, but that they want to own us. They did this to chewing tobacco and dip snuff. These small industry side-notes cannot afford the FDA approval process the same way the huge mega-billion dollar Big Cig industry can. So, they swoop in and buy up struggling chewing tobacco industry, and then Camel puts out their own dip stuff, and owns the rest of the market as well. Big Cig pushes the FDA off on us, to eventually swoop in and get Camel pipe tobaccos on the shelves.
All of this is not the obvious libtard verses tobacco. Follow the money. And, mark my words. When we all get to smoke nasty Big Cig processed Camel crap in our pipes ...Or, Marlboro cigars. It's all just a power play to buy up a tiny spec in the market for their own branding and nefarious crap.

 

[jmatt]

I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding about these rules: They were proposed a long time ago, there was already an extended period for people to comment, and many companies/people did comment. The rules we see today are already the end result after everyone commented.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I have just got back from the RYO store, amd they feel the same way. That this was a grab by Big Cig to gain control of the rest of the industry. They said that they've been sued several time by Big Cig, and this may just be the squashing blow for RYO and the vape industry. I have absolutely no love for Big Cig. They've been in the drivers seat on all of this. It's all a money grab.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

Just came across this, which is interesting:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PipeTobacco/comments/4i6jso/some_analysis_of_the_fda_deeming_pipe_tobacco/

 

[jacks6]

yea. it looks like its all going to hell