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Jan 28, 2018
12,952
134,578
66
Sarasota, FL
It may interest you to know that Hans Wiedemann himself believes it and he is the creator of the blend. It was not his idea, either. I recently discussed this with him so there's no doubt about it as far as we are concerned.

Hard to argue with that then. I'm not questioning they're different, they clearly are. I just figured it was the aging process.
 

JimInks

Sultan of Smoke
Aug 31, 2012
60,846
553,692
Hard to argue with that then. I'm not questioning they're different, they clearly are. I just figured it was the aging process.
That can happen with age, but not in this case, Mark. I've spent a bit of time on this subject because I was disappointed in the change. Currently, I have been smoking year 2014 DC, and it still tastes like more perique than DFK as it did when I was smoking that year's stuff fresh. In fact, that was why I opened the tin. I had to convince myself to an absolute certainty that I was right before I went to Hans about it.

On the same subject, I hear reports that some of the Astley's blends have been altered, too. I have no idea how true that is, but a couple of good friends mine are among those have complained about it. I trust those guys, so I am inclined to believe it. I've also read a couple of complaints about other K&K blends. If they are accurate, it's worth giving second thoughts about what to stock up on for the future.
 
Jan 28, 2018
12,952
134,578
66
Sarasota, FL
That can happen with age, but not in this case, Mark. I've spent a bit of time on this subject because I was disappointed in the change. Currently, I have been smoking year 2014 DC, and it still tastes like more perique than DFK as it did when I was smoking that year's stuff fresh. In fact, that was why I opened the tin. I had to convince myself to an absolute certainty that I was right before I went to Hans about it.

On the same subject, I hear reports that some of the Astley's blends have been altered, too. I have no idea how true that is, but a couple of good friends mine are among those have complained about it. I trust those guys, so I am inclined to believe it. I've also read a couple of complaints about other K&K blends. If they are accurate, it's worth giving second thoughts about what to stock up on for the future.

I assume Hans sold HU?
 
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JimInks

Sultan of Smoke
Aug 31, 2012
60,846
553,692
I assume Hans sold HU?
He still owns it. Hans used to do most everything himself, but health issues forced him into finding a distributor so he could be relieved of that burden. K&K and Dan Tobacco have made his blends since near - and possibly at the beginning. I'm not sure about how that originally worked as I didn't know Hans then, and never thought to ask him about it.
 
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Jan 28, 2018
12,952
134,578
66
Sarasota, FL
He still owns it. Hans used to do most everything himself, but health issues forced him into finding a distributor so he could be relieved of that burden. K&K and Dan Tobacco have made his blends since near - and possibly at the beginning. I'm not sure about how that originally worked as I didn't know Hans then, and never thought to ask him about it.

If he still owns it, why is someone else deciding to change the recipe for what may be considered his flagship blend? Perhaps I misunderstood but it sounded like the changes were not at his direction.
 

JimInks

Sultan of Smoke
Aug 31, 2012
60,846
553,692
If he still owns it, why is someone else deciding to change the recipe for what may be considered his flagship blend? Perhaps I misunderstood but it sounded like the changes were not at his direction.
They weren't. Considering he isn't a major player for these companies and those companies are changing some of their own blends to save money, there's probably not much more that he can do other than to complain. At least that's my read on this subject.
 
Jan 28, 2018
12,952
134,578
66
Sarasota, FL
They weren't. Considering he isn't a major player for these companies and those companies are changing some of their own blends to save money, there's probably not much more that he can do other than to complain. At least that's my read on this subject.

Since I have no idea what kind of agreements are in place for this type of thing, I can't comment. I'm fairly certain the subcontractors who make components for and assemble iPhones can't arbitrarily source different components or change the design without prior approval from Apple. Apples to oranges for sure but I'd still be very upset were I Hans, particularly if the change apparently it's significant and for the worse.
 

karam

Lifer
Feb 2, 2019
2,341
9,010
Basel, Switzerland
Since I have no idea what kind of agreements are in place for this type of thing, I can't comment. I'm fairly certain the subcontractors who make components for and assemble iPhones can't arbitrarily source different components or change the design without prior approval from Apple. Apples to oranges for sure but I'd still be very upset were I Hans, particularly if the change apparently it's significant and for the worse.

Yep, exactly that.
 

JimInks

Sultan of Smoke
Aug 31, 2012
60,846
553,692
Jim, any chance it's a change in the quality of the perique rather than the quantity?
That is a possibility, but I don't think so. The fruit from the perique I noticed in the current production seemed to have the same attributes that I observed in the older version. Less of that fruit and more DFK flavor is what clued me in on the change the first time I tried the new stuff. I smoked probably a 100 grams or more of the new stuff before I decided to jar it, and hope age settles down the DFK.
 

JimInks

Sultan of Smoke
Aug 31, 2012
60,846
553,692
Since I have no idea what kind of agreements are in place for this type of thing, I can't comment. I'm fairly certain the subcontractors who make components for and assemble iPhones can't arbitrarily source different components or change the design without prior approval from Apple. Apples to oranges for sure but I'd still be very upset were I Hans, particularly if the change apparently it's significant and for the worse.
You can bet your life that Hans is unhappy about it. Doing something about it may be another thing. This aspect I can't really speculate on any more than I have. I don't know anything regarding the business dealings between them. If I hear anything changes, I'll certainly report it.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,621
44,832
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Right, that's useful. On another thread I'd said that we shouldn't put all the blame with K&K (the manufacturer of the blend) and @sablebrush52 objected - I was suggesting Mr Wiedemann must have had a hand in it but clearly I'm wrong. It doesn't sound very kosher though for the contracted manufacturer of something to mess with it like that regardless of the size of the industry, but particularly in boutique pipe tobacco where word of mouth and fora like this one are 95% of the marketing you need!
I'm aware of things going on in the pipes and tobaccos world that I'm not at liberty to discuss, like the change in Director's Cut. Since that's already been mentioned by jiminks I can corroborate what he wrote.
It's not like it's a minor adjustment to the flavor profile. It's enough to make this not the same blend that I bought in previous years.
It's economics. People don't want to pay more, so the solution is to cut the manufacturing cost and if necessary, the quality, figuring that most people won't notice the difference. And guess what? Most people don't notice the difference.

If you like the blend as it's currently made, no harm done.
 
Jan 28, 2018
12,952
134,578
66
Sarasota, FL
I'm aware of things going on in the pipes and tobaccos world that I'm not at liberty to discuss, like the change in Director's Cut. Since that's already been mentioned by jiminks I can corroborate what he wrote.
It's not like it's a minor adjustment to the flavor profile. It's enough to make this not the same blend that I bought in previous years.
It's economics. People don't want to pay more, so the solution is to cut the manufacturing cost and if necessary, the quality, figuring that most people won't notice the difference. And guess what? Most people don't notice the difference.

If you like the blend as it's currently made, no harm done.

My first experience with Directors Cut was with, apparently, the newer blend. I was very underwhelmed and thought what am I missing? It was rather bland. Then I had the good fortune to trade for 4 or 5 tins of the old blend with the previous label. What a difference! I couldn't fathom anyone screwing with such a fabulous blend so I logically attributed it to aging. Apparently, faulty logic.

Do you know when the change took place? I traded another Piper for 2 kg of DC bulk from 17 or 18. I hope that is the original formula. I for one would have had no issue paying a few dollars more per tin to buy the original blend.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,621
44,832
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
My first experience with Directors Cut was with, apparently, the newer blend. I was very underwhelmed and thought what am I missing? It was rather bland. Then I had the good fortune to trade for 4 or 5 tins of the old blend with the previous label. What a difference! I couldn't fathom anyone screwing with such a fabulous blend so I logically attributed it to aging. Apparently, faulty logic.

Do you know when the change took place? I traded another Piper for 2 kg of DC bulk from 17 or 18. I hope that is the original formula. I for one would have had no issue paying a few dollars more per tin to buy the original blend.
Exactly when? No, but the kilos that Jim and I bought last year were clearly different and we both concluded that the Perique had been cut and the dark fired had been markedly increased. It wasn't subtle.

So if you're wondering what years to look for I'd guess 2018 or earlier.
 
Jan 28, 2018
12,952
134,578
66
Sarasota, FL
Exactly when? No, but the kilos that Jim and I bought last year were clearly different and we both concluded that the Perique had been cut and the dark fired had been markedly increased. It wasn't subtle.

So if you're wondering what years to look for I'd guess 2018 or earlier.

I hope that estimate is correct.
 

Pirin

Lurker
Nov 4, 2018
13
12
Don't want to steer the course of this thread but since 450g bags of Capstan were mentioned ... where? Estervals? Drop them email since it's not on the website?
 
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