Failure to taste Virginia's

[fitzy]

I'm a big fan of Balkan's and Latakia forward blends. For a several years now I've been trying to find flavor in Va's and Va/Per's without much luck.
This year I took a break from smoking Lat's for maybe 6 or 7 months and smoked mostly only forms of Va or Va/Per thinking maybe that would help me to find flavor in them. Interestingly enough sometimes I find sweetness in a Va or Va/Per and other times I can smoke the same blend and not find it.
I've tried various states of dryness and found that the McClelland's appeared to be best at very dry but the PS blends not so much. Most are like smoking hot flavorless air and that includes Jay's favorite FVF.
Failures:

Escudo (Fresh and 20 year old) = Flavorless

McClelland 2110 Classic Virginia = Flavorless

McClelland 2020 Matured Cake = Flavorless

McClelland Blackwoods = Flavorless

McClelland Dark Star = Flavorless

SG FVF = Flavorless

SG Best Brown Flake = Flavorless

GLP Regents Flake = Like most GLP blends I find it boring

GLP Haddo's = Yeah it's a blend and has an interesting tin note but still flavorless

GLP Navigator = Flavorless

F&T Special Brown Flake = Flavorless

PS LNF = Flavorless

Esoterica Stonehaven = Yeah I know it's a VA/Bur but it's still flavorless

Esoterica Peacehaven = Flavorless

McClelland Tudor Castle = I'm still working on this tin but so far it's flavorless

Solani 660 = Flavorless

Capstan Blue = Flavorless

Dunhill Flake = Probably the best of the bland
Partial success:

McClelland 2015 Va/Per = Some flavor from the Perique

McClelland 2035 Dark Navy Flake = Occasional bowl of sweetness but otherwise flavorless

McClelland 2025 English Cavendish = Some nice sweetness I assume from the orientals

McClelland 5100 = Nice sweetness but bland

McClelland 2005 Christmas Cheer = Nice sweetness but bland

McCranies Red Ribbon 1983 = Nice sweetness but bland

PS LBF = The stuff I've aged for 5+ years has some very nice sweetness to it but still bland
Success:

McClelland 2000 Fragrant Mature Cake

McClelland 5115 Old World Classic

PS LTF

F&T Cut Virginia Plug

H&H Anniversary Kake = Some nice breadiness to it

Dunhill Royal Yacht = Has flavor but not one I'm fond of.
Here's the one's I have sitting at home but haven't gotten around to yet:

McClelland 40th Anniversary = I've cracked a tin and smoked one bowl but it's too early to tell

McClelland No 24

McClelland Christmas Cheer 2015

McClelland Blakeney Toasted Acadian Ribbon = I've got hope the toasting on this will give it flavor

McClelland Aurora

McClelland St. James Woods

McConnell Scottish Flake

F&T Cut Blended Plug = Since it's got a light topping I think I will end up liking this one

Solani 633

Wessex Gold Brick

Wessex Brigade Campaign Dark Flake

Brigham Klondike Gold

Rattray Marlin Flake

Rattray Old Gowrie

MacBaren Modern Virginia Flake = Since it's got a light topping I think I will end up like this one

GLP Union Square (5 year old)
Sorry for the long post but in conclusion I can say the only Va or Va/Per I've found flavor it were mostly the one's that have some form of light topping.

 

[fitzy]

I should add I've tried small bowls, large bowls and conical bowls.

I've tried almost every possible level of dryness.

I've tried sipping and retrohaling.

I've tried the breathe method.

I've tried cube cut, fold and stuff, rubbed out and broken up in a coffee/spice grinder.
I've tried everything I can possible think of. I think I just don't have the palate for it.

 

[kanse]

Beacon Extra for VaPer and Brown Twist Sliced for Virginia. Try those.

 

[fitzy]

Oh I forgot to mention. I also bought McClelland blending perique and smoked a bunch of it straight. Tastes and smells like cheesy socks. So at least I get flavor there.
I've got 4 different ratios of blends between 5100 and the blending perique that I'm sampling.
I've got Beacon Extra on my list to try but haven't ordered it yet. I'll check out BTS as well.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Do you retrohale?

 

[kanse]

Here is a good set of filters for tobaccoreviews.
http://www.tobaccoreviews.com/search?BlendType=Virginia%2FPerique%2CStraight+Virginia&Taste=Medium+to+Full%2CFull%2CVery+Full%2CExtra+Full%2COverwhelming&Rating=Highly+Recommended&ReviewCount=10&Production=Currently+available

 

[pipesmokingtom]

Any chance you smoke cigarettes also? My fondness for Virginias really took off when I learned to not smoke a cigarette at least a couple of hours before I smoke Virginias.

 

[clickklick]

Only thing I can think of to try at this point.
Smoke an english and immediately after smoke a VA in a different pipe. If you can't taste them then, I'd say your palate is not a VA lover. Feel free to send all of you VAs and VA/Pers to me for disposal

 

[Chasing Embers]

I retrohale almost every puff, that's how nice I find it.

Me too.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Fitzy- I think I am in your camp, though haven't approached it nearly as throughly as you have. Have some McClelland's Christmas I like, and Stonehenge is good, but I need to re-visit some others.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Have you tried Black Twist XX?

 

[allthebass]

I'm kind of the same way, I love medium and occasionally full Latakia blends but many of the Viginias I've tried have been like smoking hot air. If I can taste them it's still a hit and miss experience bowl to bowl. There have been a few exceptions; I generally like 5100 though sometimes it's bland but excellent when it hits the mark. 5100 is particularly good in a clay or meerschaum IMHO. I've also had good experiences with Red Ribbon and Aurora and have put some in my cellar though I haven't really developed a craving for it. Autumn Evening has a good flavor from the red Virginia base but I can only deal with the maple topping on rare occasions. I also have some 10 year old 2015 and Escudo put back but I've thinking about selling the Escudo as I don't think I'll actually appreciate it. I might break into the 2015 and give that a shot again...if nothing else just to remind myself how much I don't like I don't like Virginia flake. ;-)

 

[fitzy]

Do you retrohale?

Yes I do and I definitely get more flavor from those lightly topped Va's that way. The regular Va's I get nothing but what I do notice is the aged one's are sooooo much more smooth when retrohaling vs non aged that tend to sting a bit.
Maybe I should give it my tongue a week or two break and see if it makes a difference. What boggles me is the Dark Navy Flake sometimes I get sweetness and sometimes I don't. That's with the same drying time and the same pipe.

Smoke an english and immediately after smoke a VA in a different pipe.

Adam I will give that a shot. I was hoping since the Tudor Castle has orientals that I would find their delicious sweet and sour taste but I don't find that it.

 

[fitzy]

Have you tried Black Twist XX?

Nope. Does it have lakeland? If so I'll pass as that I can taste granny's perfumy soap. ha ha
I did try Macbaren ODF and found no flavor in it either.

 

[philobeddoe]

Just smoke English blends and forget it, you have more than tried to like Virginias. Pack a bowl of Blackhouse or Wilderness and enjoy!

 

[sablebrush52]

If you're used to the bold flavors of blends containing Latakia and Orientals, Virginias and their variants may taste like nothing. The flavors in Virginias are delicate in comparison, and they generally need to be smoked almost bone dry to get the most out of them. None of them are flavor bombs, though at this point in time I find them extremely flavorful because I've adjusted to them. It's not unlike getting off of salted food. I like food with little to no salt so that I can taste their natural flavors. Foods that I used to enjoy now uniformly taste of nothing but salt, which has saved me considerable money since I rarely eat at restaurants because of the salt content.
Virginias are demanding of good technique to perform well. With FVF, which I initially hated and found flavorless, I needed to dry it out for about 5 hours before smoking. I smoke Virginias, Va/Pers, Va/Burs, and Va/Per/Burs using very very slow sips, barely a wisp of smoke, and a very very slow retrohale to get those elusive flavors. It took months before I got accustomed to Virginias and learned how to smoke them, as I had been pretty much an English, Balkan/Oriental smoker. They're now my favorite blends.
It's also possible that your palate just doesn't pick up the very delicate nuanced flavors of Virginias. Not everyone can taste everything. But it could also be that you just need more time getting acquainted with these types of blends. Try sticking with just one and keep at it to see if you find the right combination of moisture, packing, and cadence to make it perform for you.

 

[bluegrasspipe]

I have to give you :clap: for effort, you are certainly not a quitter.

I tend to agree with you on the SG FVF and the Solani, they don't have much flavor, but I wouldn't say flavorless. I have heard people talking about tasting nothing but hot air and never understood it until I tried these, mostly the FVF was very subtle which surprised me as it is held in high regard by so many people.

And yes I would take that 20 year old escudo off your hands should you still have it ha ha..

 

[fitzy]

Brian I've got a couple slices left if you want. It's amazing how dark it gets.
Phil I'm almost to that point.
Sable I'll give that a shot. Maybe I'll stick to FVF for a couple weeks and see how I do.
I really like the sweetness in the McCranies 1983 and the McClelland 5100 but should I be tasting anything else other than a general sweetness and hot air? Also I maybe crazy but I tend to notice the sweetness more just after lighting.

 

[kanse]

Have you tried some decade old stuff?

 

[J. Mayo]

Have you tried Orlik Golden Sliced? I too was disappointed by FVF after all the love it gets on the forums. I found OGS to fit my palate a little better. I'm also still working my way through a tin of each Escudo & Dunhill Deluxe Navy Rolls..... But I'm really enjoying the Navy Rolls a little more than Escudo so far.