Extreme Aging of Pipe Tobaccos

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peregrinus

Lifer
Aug 4, 2019
1,205
3,794
Pacific Northwest
To all, but particularly to those of you who have older tins; tins 20, 25 or 30 year’s old or more ...

The aging of pipe tobacco is generally considered a good thing, right? Subjectively, a certain degree of aging rounds the edges off the blend, marries the components and often intensifies the flavors. But extreme aging also changes the blender’s overall intended result. A 25 year old tin is not the same product as imagined by the blender. There is an inherent problem with extremely long term cellaring: a tin that a 25 years old today may be 45+ years old or more (an age few were intended to achieve) before it is eventually opened, and that can’t always be a good thing.
As I understand it, all agricultural products have a lifespan, a quality lifespan. At some point, whether it’s a loaf of Wonder Bread or a vintage bottle of Chateau Petrus the product will eventually reach a quality level peak or apogee and then begin to decline.
The merits of whether “to jar, or not to jar” aside, this concept should be true with most tinned pipe tobaccos. To believe all tinned pipe tobaccos improve indefinitely with age is magical thinking.
For example, some Latakia mixtures mellow to banality with extreme age, some Virginia flakes eventually lose freshness and spice to the point of becoming the ghosts of Virginias past, and so on.
Perhaps it is prudent to rotate out some of the 25 to 30+ year old tins (sell or trade them) and then backfill with newer tins, new favorites, to avoid TTDS (tobacco tin decline syndrome) and thus insure that there will be a quality smoke available after an additional 10, 15 or 20 years aging and not just tins of petrified bat guano.
What do you think?
 

gervais

Lifer
Sep 4, 2019
2,208
7,767
40
Ontario
I’d be curious to know when the different types of tobacco begin degradation. I’ve heard several people opening very old tins, 20+ years, having very pleasant experiences. I think that they would hold up for a very long time, assuming you still have adequate moisture in the tobacco
 
I’d be curious to know when the different types of tobacco begin degradation.
It's just not that easy. You cannot say all burleys will crap out at 15 or 17.5 years, because it depends on casings, conditions it was aged in, what are the condiment leafs, mold inhibitors, PGs, water content, etc... Too many variables. Even with Virginias and all the rest, broad oversimplification is one of the worst lies, and does no one any good. Already the whole oversimplification of latakia, burleys, and Virginias is skewed most forum members perceptions way out of perspective.

If someone doesn't want anything older than 20 years, then take care of that yourself in your own cellar. If someone is worried about my hoard, then damn their eyes. It's really none of their business... thank you for your concerns. puffy
 

Elric

Lifer
Sep 19, 2019
2,363
10,940
Liplapper Lane (Michigan)
To all, but particularly to those of you who have older tins; tins 20, 25 or 30 year’s old or more ...

The aging of pipe tobacco is generally considered a good thing, right? Subjectively, a certain degree of aging rounds the edges off the blend, marries the components and often intensifies the flavors. But extreme aging also changes the blender’s overall intended result. A 25 year old tin is not the same product as imagined by the blender. There is an inherent problem with extremely long term cellaring: a tin that a 25 years old today may be 45+ years old or more (an age few were intended to achieve) before it is eventually opened, and that can’t always be a good thing.
As I understand it, all agricultural products have a lifespan, a quality lifespan. At some point, whether it’s a loaf of Wonder Bread or a vintage bottle of Chateau Petrus the product will eventually reach a quality level peak or apogee and then begin to decline.
The merits of whether “to jar, or not to jar” aside, this concept should be true with most tinned pipe tobaccos. To believe all tinned pipe tobaccos improve indefinitely with age is magical thinking.
For example, some Latakia mixtures mellow to banality with extreme age, some Virginia flakes eventually lose freshness and spice to the point of becoming the ghosts of Virginias past, and so on.
Perhaps it is prudent to rotate out some of the 25 to 30+ year old tins (sell or trade them) and then backfill with newer tins, new favorites, to avoid TTDS (tobacco tin decline syndrome) and thus insure that there will be a quality smoke available after an additional 10, 15 or 20 years aging and not just tins of petrified bat guano.
What do you think?

Excellent discussion fodder. Except for your Wonder Bread example; that will be around to feed future generations of cockroaches, LOL!
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
20,978
50,221
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
To all, but particularly to those of you who have older tins; tins 20, 25 or 30 year’s old or more ...

The aging of pipe tobacco is generally considered a good thing, right? Subjectively, a certain degree of aging rounds the edges off the blend, marries the components and often intensifies the flavors. But extreme aging also changes the blender’s overall intended result. A 25 year old tin is not the same product as imagined by the blender. There is an inherent problem with extremely long term cellaring: a tin that a 25 years old today may be 45+ years old or more (an age few were intended to achieve) before it is eventually opened, and that can’t always be a good thing.
As I understand it, all agricultural products have a lifespan, a quality lifespan. At some point, whether it’s a loaf of Wonder Bread or a vintage bottle of Chateau Petrus the product will eventually reach a quality level peak or apogee and then begin to decline.
The merits of whether “to jar, or not to jar” aside, this concept should be true with most tinned pipe tobaccos. To believe all tinned pipe tobaccos improve indefinitely with age is magical thinking.
For example, some Latakia mixtures mellow to banality with extreme age, some Virginia flakes eventually lose freshness and spice to the point of becoming the ghosts of Virginias past, and so on.
Perhaps it is prudent to rotate out some of the 25 to 30+ year old tins (sell or trade them) and then backfill with newer tins, new favorites, to avoid TTDS (tobacco tin decline syndrome) and thus insure that there will be a quality smoke available after an additional 10, 15 or 20 years aging and not just tins of petrified bat guano.
What do you think?
Spot on. I've posted on this to the same effect. All tobaccos have a life span. They all eventually fade and go strange. People dreaming of opening up a 50 year old tin of "whatsis" and experiencing nirvana are more likely to experience a big ass let down. I've learned my lesson regarding this and that's why I don't piss away my hard earned sheckels on ancient tins. 90% of the time the contents are either wraiths, mummy dust, or zombie sludge with a touch of vomit. That is, if you're lucky.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
20,978
50,221
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I’d be curious to know when the different types of tobacco begin degradation. I’ve heard several people opening very old tins, 20+ years, having very pleasant experiences. I think that they would hold up for a very long time, assuming you still have adequate moisture in the tobacco
20 years isn't especially old. Getting up into the 30's and above is when things can start to go strange.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
20,978
50,221
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
So is it not realistic to cellar heavily, in hopes of having your favourites till you kick the bucket? I guess we are all just rolling the dice and crossing our fingers.?
Pretty much. I think, from my own experience, that cellaring a 30 or 40 year supply and expecting that it will all just get more and more wonderful, is completely ludicrous, bonkers, wanking mad. I'm probably good for about 10 or more years if I don't buy any more. Looking through the pile I think it's way too much, so I feel like enjoying what I have, rather than adding to it.
 

litup

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 16, 2015
787
2,418
Sacramento, CA
So is it not realistic to cellar heavily, in hopes of having your favourites till you kick the bucket? I guess we are all just rolling the dice and crossing our fingers.?
This is something I think of frequently. I may technically have 40 years' worth of tobacco on hand so if they made selling it illegal today I should be okay. But if all that tobacco turns to shitdust in 20 years, I really only have 20 years of supply on hand. Buying more now for the year 2050 would just mean I'm wasting more money.

It drives home how important it is to my supply that blenders be allowed to keep producing new tins of tobacco for years to come.
 

canucklehead

Lifer
Aug 1, 2018
2,862
15,355
Alberta
I have smoked 33-45 year old Prince Albert, and 45+ year old Prince Albert. The 33-45 year old stuff is definitely starting to fade, and has a little bit of a dusty cardboard hint to the taste, but is still perfectly smokable and decent tasting, very smooth. The 45+ year old stuff has more than a hint of that old cardboard box from a dusty attic taste as well as distinct metallic/rust notes, but still has recognizable PA burley flavour. Not exactly a pleasant smoke anymore.
 
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