Experienced Pipers 20 Years+ Opinions on Definitive Blends

[Chasing Embers]

I feel like people don't understand what the word "definitive" means in this context.

He specifically asked for the opinions of long term smokers what they thought the definitive ones were. Subjectivity of taste disqualifies anything definitive.

 

[sablebrush52]

As a new piper I’m interested to know the opinions of the old timers as to which you might consider the Definitive Blends of the basic families including their subgroups.
The most English English and why and so on and so forth. This would be a fun poll I’m willing to tally and post results if anyone is interested.

Aromatic
Balkan
Burley
English
Lakeland
Oriental
Scottish
Virginia
VA/BUR
VA/PER


If the blends are no longer available then perhaps an available match and a bit of history if you feel like expounding a bit.

Feel like this would be a good article if even just based on the opinions of this forum and great for us newbs to see what it’s all about…
Thanks in advance?

The opinions expressed are my own and were neither coerced, nor bought.

Keep in mind that these impressions are largely based on versions from 5 years ago or more. Quality has been more variable more recently.

Aromatic - I'm not much of an aromatic smoker and the traditional vanilla and cherry varieties no longer interest me. 1Q remains the most popular vanilla aromatic, along with Captain Black White. For a cherry that doesn't taste like a chemical factory try Cherry Sarrono from HU, available at Esterval's. I'm also a sucker for George Huber Virginia Golden Flake, which has a fine honeydew topping. Problem is, you have to fly to Munich to buy it.

Balkan - Sobranie Ltd and Gallaher's version of Balkan Sobranie, NOT Germain's, which is, for me, unsmokeable crap. Otherwise try Balkan Supreme or Tashkent from Peretti.

Burley - I like Watch City's various Burley blends, but I'm not much of a Burley smoker.

English - GL Pease Renaissance, Raven's Wing, and Bohemian Scandal are excellent blends featuring top quality Syrian Latakia. All are OOP and all are super expensive on the aftermarket. I'm also fond of an OOP The Smoker Ltd blend, Easy Chair, that Russ Oullette was kind enough to make for me from the original recipe book. Originally blended by Mel Feldman, a master blender of stout English blends and a Barling authority.

Lakeland - I don't like soap, but I do like Gawith & Haggarth flakes such as Glengarry Flake. I also like St. Bruno, even though it's not the same as the original Ogden's version due to the different Virginias used in the base.

Oriental - Many of the best of these were made by McClelland and are OOP, and cost your left nut on the aftermarket. I quite like Brunello Flake and some of the Watch City Orientals. There's likely to be a shortage of this type of blend due to shortages of Oriental leaf.

Virginia - GL Pease Union Square is a good choice. Montgomery is another interesting Virginia blend that doesn't get a lot of notice. There aren't many American made Virginia blends worth smoking since McClelland closed their doors. Capstan Blue is a standard, as was Cut Virginia Plug. But the latter has undergone changes to the Virginias and isn't what it once was.
Keep your eyes peeled this Fall for another edition of Sutliff's Cringle Flake, which may be a straight Virginia or a Va/Per. Either way these releases have never bee less than superb. I can't recommend the blends recently turned out by K&K because of the substitutions.
Keep an eye on micro batches being released by Ken Byron Ventures. He's producing some of the best blends available today, but they come in small one time releases because they're composed from limited supplies of top quality aged leaf.
I would also recommend Gawith & Hoggarth and Samuel Gawith tobaccos when looking for Virginias. Their use of Empire Leaf provides fuller and richer flavor than the pallid stuff generally offered by American producers, excepting Sutliff.

Va/Bur - About the only Va/Bur I smoke are Esoterica Stonehaven, Esoterica Tilbury and G&H Dark Flake. The Esotericas are hard to find, and insanely high priced on the aftermarket. Fortunately I was able to stock up at regular retail, about 15% of aftermarket gouging prices. Gawith & Hoggarth Coniston Plug and Dark Bird's Eye are other good choices. Gawith & Hoggarth turn out a high quality product.

Va/Per - This is where the slaughter gets bad, with producers subbing cheap dark fired for Perique, and it doesn't work. D&R Rimbouché blends are good basic Va/Pers, not fancy, but honest. GL Pease Telegraph Hill, Stratford, Fillmore, and Haddo's Delight are good choices. Solani 633 is a shadow of its former self. If you can find any, look for the RO Perique Series, in particular, GP-11. Escudo made by Copes or A & C Petersen is a classic and one of the best ever made. The STG version is crap. HU Director's Cut is a good choice as is Ascanian, but they need to be ordered from Germany. I also recommend Sutliff's Match Victorian, a high quality clone of the Murray's version of Elizabethan Mixture. Cabbies Mixture from 2017 and earlier is excellent. But the last batch I bought in 2019 was loaded with cheap dark fired and was pretty damned awful. Esoterica Dunbar and Dorchester are aromatic Va/Pers, both of which I like a lot. You also might like H&H Anniversary Kake and Viprati.

 

[jpberg]

The opinions expressed are my own and were neither coerced, nor bought.

Keep in mind that these impressions are largely based on versions from 5 years ago or more. Quality has been more variable more recently.

Aromatic - I'm not much of an aromatic smoker and the traditional vanilla and cherry varieties no longer interest me. 1Q remains the most popular vanilla aromatic, along with Captain Black White. For a cherry that doesn't taste like a chemical factory try Cherry Sarrono from HU, available at Esterval's. I'm also a sucker for George Huber Virginia Golden Flake, which has a fine honeydew topping. Problem is, you have to fly to Munich to buy it.

Balkan - Sobranie Ltd and Gallaher's version of Balkan Sobranie, NOT Germain's, which is, for me, unsmokeable crap. Otherwise try Balkan Supreme or Tashkent from Peretti.

Burley - I like Watch City's various Burley blends, but I'm not much of a Burley smoker.

English - GL Pease Renaissance, Raven's Wing, and Bohemian Scandal are excellent blends featuring top quality Syrian Latakia. All are OOP and all are super expensive on the aftermarket. I'm also fond of an OOP The Smoker Ltd blend, Easy Chair, that Russ Oullette was kind enough to make for me from the original recipe book. Originally blended by Mel Feldman, a master blender of stout English blends and a Barling authority.

Lakeland - I don't like soap, but I do like Gawith & Haggarth flakes such as Glengarry Flake. I also like St. Bruno, even though it's not the same as the original Ogden's version due to the different Virginias used in the base.

Oriental - Many of the best of these were made by McClelland and are OOP, and cost your left nut on the aftermarket. I quite like Brunello Flake and some of the Watch City Orientals. There's likely to be a shortage of this type of blend due to shortages of Oriental leaf.

Virginia - GL Pease Union Square is a good choice. Montgomery is another interesting Virginia blend that doesn't get a lot of notice. There aren't many American made Virginia blends worth smoking since McClelland closed their doors. Capstan Blue is a standard, as was Cut Virginia Plug. But the latter has undergone changes to the Virginias and isn't what it once was.
Keep your eyes peeled this Fall for another edition of Sutliff's Cringle Flake, which may be a straight Virginia or a Va/Per. Either way these releases have never bee less than superb. I can't recommend the blends recently turned out by K&K because of the substitutions.
Keep an eye on micro batches being released by Ken Byron Ventures. He's producing some of the best blends available today, but they come in small one time releases because they're composed from limited supplies of top quality aged leaf.
I would also recommend Gawith & Hoggarth and Samuel Gawith tobaccos when looking for Virginias. Their use of Empire Leaf provides fuller and richer flavor than the pallid stuff generally offered by American producers, excepting Sutliff.

Va/Bur - About the only Va/Bur I smoke are Esoterica Stonehaven, Esoterica Tilbury and G&H Dark Flake. The Esotericas are hard to find, and insanely high priced on the aftermarket. Fortunately I was able to stock up at regular retail, about 15% of aftermarket gouging prices. Gawith & Hoggarth Coniston Plug and Dark Bird's Eye are other good choices. Gawith & Hoggarth turn out a high quality product.

Va/Per - This is where the slaughter gets bad, with producers subbing cheap dark fired for Perique, and it doesn't work. D&R Rimbouché blends are good basic Va/Pers, not fancy, but honest. GL Pease Telegraph Hill, Stratford, Fillmore, and Haddo's Delight are good choices. Solani 633 is a shadow of its former self. If you can find any, look for the RO Perique Series, in particular, GP-11. Escudo made by Copes or A & C Petersen is a classic and one of the best ever made. The STG version is crap. HU Director's Cut is a good choice as is Ascanian, but they need to be ordered from Germany. I also recommend Sutliff's Match Victorian, a high quality clone of the Murray's version of Elizabethan Mixture. Cabbies Mixture from 2017 and earlier is excellent. But the last batch I bought in 2019 was loaded with cheap dark fired and was pretty damned awful. Esoterica Dunbar and Dorchester are aromatic Va/Pers, both of which I like a lot. You also might like H&H Anniversary Kake and Viprati.

That’s a well put together and thoughtful list.
To the OP I would ask if you’re looking for current production or all timers that we have smoked, because there are damned few blends that are the same as they were 20 years ago.

 

[JOHN72]

This is too long to explain. I am 17 years short of a convincing answer.

 

[--dante--]

This brings to mind Reddit surveys of favorite Rolling Stones songs, etc. There is not going to be a definitive answer to any categories, as per the definition of definitive itself. Answers, yes. Definitive answers, no. It's just an ad hoc survey.

 

[jpmcwjr]

appreciate it, I was assuming Balkan Sobranie would be the definitive

Yes, 30 years ago or so. Now, not so much.

Be warned, there are morons who've smoked 50 years, and bright stars with far less time than 20 years.

 

[--dante--]

I feel like people don't understand what the word "definitive" means in this context. Or maybe they just have a bad case of the Mondays and are too grumpy to admit they do know but just don't want anyone to have fun.

It doesn't have to be about what you think tastes good, what's popular on one forum, or something that was voted into the Tobacco Hall of Fame. The OP is just curious about the blend from each category that's got the reputation of being iconic within that category (even if you might have a different definition of what that category might be). It's not like you're under oath when you answer these questions.

I understand the term perfectly well -- I just don't think it applies to tobacco blends in any way. What's the definitive codger blend? What's the definitive VaPer? I just don't see how we can apply the answers here.

 

[litup]

I understand the term perfectly well -- I just don't think it applies to tobacco blends in any way. What's the definitive codger blend? What's the definitive VaPer? I just don't see how we can apply the answers here.

I think most people understand that when they see an article titled something like "the definitive songs of the 60s" that it's still going to be an article informed by the author's perception of what makes a particular song definitive. Part of the fun is that someone takes a stand by expressing an opinion and then other people challenge it with their own thoughts.

Within this forum there is certainly enough history, lore, experience, and knowledge for a group of smokers to express educated opinions on which blends might be considered the definitive representation of that particular blend's category. If someone still thinks they can't answer the question for whatever reason, nothing is compelling them to respond to the post.

 

[--dante--]

I think most people understand that when they see an article titled something like "the definitive songs of the 60s" that it's still going to be an article informed by the author's perception of what makes a particular song definitive. Part of the fun is that someone takes a stand by expressing an opinion and then other people challenge it with their own thoughts.

Within this forum there is certainly enough history, lore, experience, and knowledge for a group of smokers to express educated opinions on which blends might be considered the definitive representation of that particular blend's category. If someone still thinks they can't answer the question for whatever reason, nothing is compelling them to respond to the post.

Fair enough. I've been smoking pipe tobaccos near 20 years, but consider none of them (or their 'lore') definitive, so I'll just beg off. I think the term just doesn't work for me in re pipe tobaccos. Do have fun with it and ignore me

 

[vosBghos]

The opinions expressed are my own and were neither coerced, nor bought.

Keep in mind that these impressions are largely based on versions from 5 years ago or more. Quality has been more variable more recently.

Aromatic - I'm not much of an aromatic smoker and the traditional vanilla and cherry varieties no longer interest me. 1Q remains the most popular vanilla aromatic, along with Captain Black White. For a cherry that doesn't taste like a chemical factory try Cherry Sarrono from HU, available at Esterval's. I'm also a sucker for George Huber Virginia Golden Flake, which has a fine honeydew topping. Problem is, you have to fly to Munich to buy it.

Balkan - Sobranie Ltd and Gallaher's version of Balkan Sobranie, NOT Germain's, which is, for me, unsmokeable crap. Otherwise try Balkan Supreme or Tashkent from Peretti.

Burley - I like Watch City's various Burley blends, but I'm not much of a Burley smoker.

English - GL Pease Renaissance, Raven's Wing, and Bohemian Scandal are excellent blends featuring top quality Syrian Latakia. All are OOP and all are super expensive on the aftermarket. I'm also fond of an OOP The Smoker Ltd blend, Easy Chair, that Russ Oullette was kind enough to make for me from the original recipe book. Originally blended by Mel Feldman, a master blender of stout English blends and a Barling authority.

Lakeland - I don't like soap, but I do like Gawith & Haggarth flakes such as Glengarry Flake. I also like St. Bruno, even though it's not the same as the original Ogden's version due to the different Virginias used in the base.

Oriental - Many of the best of these were made by McClelland and are OOP, and cost your left nut on the aftermarket. I quite like Brunello Flake and some of the Watch City Orientals. There's likely to be a shortage of this type of blend due to shortages of Oriental leaf.

Virginia - GL Pease Union Square is a good choice. Montgomery is another interesting Virginia blend that doesn't get a lot of notice. There aren't many American made Virginia blends worth smoking since McClelland closed their doors. Capstan Blue is a standard, as was Cut Virginia Plug. But the latter has undergone changes to the Virginias and isn't what it once was.
Keep your eyes peeled this Fall for another edition of Sutliff's Cringle Flake, which may be a straight Virginia or a Va/Per. Either way these releases have never bee less than superb. I can't recommend the blends recently turned out by K&K because of the substitutions.
Keep an eye on micro batches being released by Ken Byron Ventures. He's producing some of the best blends available today, but they come in small one time releases because they're composed from limited supplies of top quality aged leaf.
I would also recommend Gawith & Hoggarth and Samuel Gawith tobaccos when looking for Virginias. Their use of Empire Leaf provides fuller and richer flavor than the pallid stuff generally offered by American producers, excepting Sutliff.

Va/Bur - About the only Va/Bur I smoke are Esoterica Stonehaven, Esoterica Tilbury and G&H Dark Flake. The Esotericas are hard to find, and insanely high priced on the aftermarket. Fortunately I was able to stock up at regular retail, about 15% of aftermarket gouging prices. Gawith & Hoggarth Coniston Plug and Dark Bird's Eye are other good choices. Gawith & Hoggarth turn out a high quality product.

Va/Per - This is where the slaughter gets bad, with producers subbing cheap dark fired for Perique, and it doesn't work. D&R Rimbouché blends are good basic Va/Pers, not fancy, but honest. GL Pease Telegraph Hill, Stratford, Fillmore, and Haddo's Delight are good choices. Solani 633 is a shadow of its former self. If you can find any, look for the RO Perique Series, in particular, GP-11. Escudo made by Copes or A & C Petersen is a classic and one of the best ever made. The STG version is crap. HU Director's Cut is a good choice as is Ascanian, but they need to be ordered from Germany. I also recommend Sutliff's Match Victorian, a high quality clone of the Murray's version of Elizabethan Mixture. Cabbies Mixture from 2017 and earlier is excellent. But the last batch I bought in 2019 was loaded with cheap dark fired and was pretty damned awful. Esoterica Dunbar and Dorchester are aromatic Va/Pers, both of which I like a lot. You also might like H&H Anniversary Kake and Viprati.

Thank you so much for the extensive and thorough list it will not go to waste sometimes a good breakdown helps…

 

[vosBghos]

I've been smoking for 31 years so I'll go just from my own palate.

Aromatic Rich Dark Honeydew
Balkan Peretti Royal
Burley HH Burley Flake
English Lizzie's Blood Red English
Lakeland pre 2021 Ennerdale
Oriental Yenidje Highlander
Scottish Black Frigate
Virginia McClelland 40th Anniversary
VA/BUR Old Dark Fired
VA/PER Elizabethan Match
Deertongue Crooner

I’m with you on the old dark fired and enjoy the bold as well

 

[vosBghos]

Y

That’s a well put together and thoughtful list.
To the OP I would ask if you’re looking for current production or all timers that we have smoked, because there are damned few blends that are the same as they were 20 years ago.

Yes I was wondering about best matches too for things out of production. I have a thing for tradition and history it’s interesting to me.
I used to work at a White Castle and on Sundays it would be slow and I would sit with The WWII vets and listen to their stories some of them smoked pipes and I would smoke cigarettes wish I could remember the Tins but when I see Peterson‘s Irish Flake in the red tin it brings me back but I don’t know who was putting it out then in like 90/91?

 

[anotherbob]

I could give anyone a simple 10 minute tutorial. Yes, it’s unfortunately that simple to destroy and get away with it.

much easier to destroy most things then to make anything.

 

[Chasing Embers]

much easier to destroy most things then to make anything.

Very easy to make a mess when you destroy things.

 

[ashdigger]

much easier to destroy most things then to make anything.

100%

 

[tabakpfeife]

OK. I‘ll bite on a couple of these. 48 years for me. My favorite VAPER is Esoterica Dunbar. Good luck getting some. #2, and easier, is GL Pease Telegraph Hill. I suppose Escuso is the hallmark, but I like these two better.

My favorite VABUR is Old Gowrie. It has some Perique in it, bu the hell with it.

I like Balkan Sobranie for Balkan. How many forum mavens does it take to smoke Balkan Sobranie? 100. 1 to smoke it and 99 to complain it‘s not as good as it used to be (sorry. Old joke)

Virginia. Full VA Flake. 2nd is C& D Carolina Flake Special Edition. Any of them.

ARO. I guess Lane 1Q, or maybe BCA.

 

[Duke of Erinmore]

Just found this on a search and found it worth pushing

I agree with most folks here that blends have changed so much over time that it's difficult. Also, I am more focused on European blends which gives a different perspective. But here we go:

Aromatic: Also not much of an Aro smoker, but I have the hots for HU Daddy Gefftl. This one is always in my rotation. As unicorn the original Murray's Erinmore.

Balkan/English (is there so much of a difference?): There is a lot to name as I smoke 90% Latakia based stuff. My champions are GLP Maltese Falcon (only with a couple years of age), Germain's Special Lat, HU Khoisaan (underestimated on the other side of the pond), Palmetto, McC 3 oaks syrian and as a unicorn blend: Marcovitch. I've smoked it against Original Balkan Sobranie and it definitely wins.

Burley: Not much of a Burley smoker, but the best I've come across is HU Nashville County

Lakeland: I'm really into soap, but for me there are only 2 that are outstanding. Ennerdale and Broken Flake #7

Scottish: Rattray's Red Rapparee, but it needs a couple of years to age

Virginia: GLP Union Square, and also an IMO underestimated blend: GH Bright CR Flake

VA/BUR: Troost Slices

VA/PER: I must confess that I don't like huge amounts of Perique in a blend. But my favourite VaPer is GH Louisiana Flake, as one reviewer stated: "Here we have the VaPer for those who think they don't like VaPers"

 

[kcghost]

This a question that I am amazed is answering. For me, I guess I'd go with @sablebrush52.

 

[dog_park_piper]

I doubt that @vosBghos is trying to find out if taste is subjective or not.

I don't have the years smoking to list my tobaccos, but @vosBghos just wants to know what YOUR list of definitive tobaccos might look like.

When people say "taste is subjective, so no comment," do they really not understand the point of the thread?

 

[Chasing Embers]

When people say "taste is subjective, so no comment," do they really not understand the point of the thread?

That maybe the subjectivity prevents the existence of definitive blends? Like this thread, ask ten different smokers the same question and you'll get just as many answers.