Expensive Pipes

[atskywalker]

WOW! I didn't realize I'll solicit such warm participation for my simple question. I think I got all I needed in answers and then more .
The intent of the question was to understand what is special about these pipes. I think the conclusion I get here is that there's some sort of point where performance is not the object but the aesthetics , craftsmanship, and the whole subjective department of the relationship between value and beauty .
I myself am more of a function guy with a minimum set of requirements regarding aesthetics (Peterson, Savinelli, Brigham, Lorenzetti, Capri, & Rattray - have all been good to me & all below $200) . I find the "high-end" pipes to sometimes be exquisite pieces of art and I certainly appreciate them for that but for the time being I'll stick with the "low-end" . Thanks for all the discussion!

 

[dochudson]

I own three from Mark Tinsky and all were below $200 each one is perfect that I would up against any $400-500 pipe.

 

[daimyo]

Atskywalker, if you would like to try the medium ground both Chris Askwith and Trever Talbert have lines where they use pre-shaped rough stummels and then finish them out by hand. You can get the Askwith's for as low as 90 and the Ligne Bretagne for 135 and up. I know I'm not the only one who considers them a tremendous value. Good thread though, although this gets brought up multiple times there were some great answers given in this one.

 

[seadogontheland]

$100.00 can get you a great factory pipe and a tin of premium tobacco to your doorstep easily. Briar is an unknown entity pipe to pipe...I have smoked garbage pipes which were $300 plus and garbage pipes for $40...conversely I have had some excellent pipes that were costly and some that were inexpensive. I think you will be best served finding out what you want in a pipe...grain, stem type, hand to pipe fit, color, shape and go from there with your budget in careful consideration.

 

[tslex]

I think the conclusion I get here is that there's some sort of point where performance is not the object but the aesthetics , craftsmanship, and the whole subjective department of the relationship between value and beauty

I think this is exactly correct.
My rack is full of Petersons and BCs and Brebbias and the like. Nearly every pipe I own -- and smoke, no rack babies here -- was purchased for less than $150.
But, that said, if I could find a 1960 Dunhill bent bulldog I would pay a great price for it, because a birth year bent bulldog Dunhill is my white whale pipe.
Subjective relationship between value and beauty indeed.

 

[Snow Hill]

I enjoy my Forever Stem outfitted MM Cobs every bit as much as my briars - including my Stanwell POTY. But all of my pipes delver different experiences. Like most all of you, I match the tobacco I want to the pipe that will make it sing.

 

[cigrmaster]

atskywalker

I think the conclusion I get here is that there's some sort of point where performance is not the object but the aesthetics , craftsmanship, and the whole subjective department of the relationship between value and beauty .

I think you are missing a valuable point in that performance is the main driving force as to why I do spend 400.00 for a new Rad Davis pipe. I buy them because they smoke better FOR ME than pipes in the 200 and below range. I have never had one of my Rad's or other artisan pipes gurgle, they all smoke cool and most importantly they make my favorite blends smoke great. Now you do not have to spend 400.00 as I have bought a bunch of estate artisan pipes from 135-250. I have bought plenty of estate artisan pipes where I did not care for the looks at all, but purchased them anyway because I knew they would be great smokers. My goal is to acquire great smoking pipes and looks are secondary. My primary purpose of buying a pipe is so that my favorite blends smoke as well as possible, and for me that means buying artisan made pipes. Now if I could enjoy acrylic stems, that would open up a whole different world as Castello's smoke incredibly well as do many other Italian makers. So if the stem is not significant for you then yes there are tons of great Italian pipes out there in the 100-150 range. Being a clencher, stem comfort is of extreme importance to me and only hand made vulcanite stems suit my tastes.

 

[wyfbane]

Great thread. I agree with a lot said, especially Harris. As I mature as a pipesmoker, I find myself chasing after 'hand made' pipes. I don't have the aversion to acrylic, so I am in the hunt for Castello's when they are priced right, along with Duca, Cavicchi's and artisan pipes.
If you take some time and learn the ways of estate shopping you can find 'expensive' pipes for inexpensive numbers. :D

 

[eaglewriter1]

In my Opinion, to a point lets say around 200$ you pay for the quality of the briar used and proper craftsmanship applied but everything about that is also taking into account the individual skill of the artist, making these pipes in a way pieces of art. as a comparison: Of course you can get a nice oil painting for 80$ and its gong to be a nice piece of decoration, serving its intended purpous but if you want a Mona Lisa you better be ready to add some zeros to that number. Quality wise, both paintings are made from the same materials and both serve their purpouse well, but the indidivual skill, time spent on finer details etc. are what makes it special.

 

[mso489]

An outstanding smoking experience can be had from a modestly priced pipe. People might assign a price of $250 to ten dollars to modestly priced. Or you name what's modestly priced. Many come to the place where they want craft, artistry, originality, the best materials, a striking finish or multiple finishes, exotic materials, a known name in pipe carving, distinct origins, and so on. For them, each added quality adds to the experience of enjoying a bowl of pipe tobacco. Others want more, in terms of shear status of the carver and historical prominence. So for a near optimal smoking experience, you can probably spend moderately. If you want to pay more, you should get more, as mentioned above.

 

[saltedplug]

No one executes classical shapes as well or consistently as Dunhill.

In the matter of engineering I am, admittedly, a philistine with absolutely nothing to say, but in the expanding freedom afforded by such woeful ignorance I would say that engineering is one of the most secretive of makers' skills, yet it remains governed by the overriding requirement to connect the chamber draft to the bit draft, with a line of sufficient girth; and with the previous drafts correctly sized, allows the effortless drawing of smoke. I would say that it is just that simple, but ahh, I hear the rumbling thunder of of of the resident pipe cognoscenti saying what about Bernoulli and other such obscure figures who said brilliant things which can be applied to an airway; but again I am such an ignorant bastard that it is best that I make no comment lest I be judged by my betters.
The problem with judging the smoking qualities of pipes is that I cannot be inside you to experience the way you perceive it, and similarly I cannot share your palate, your processing of the smoke that contains your semantic memory, one of the main components of that processing that contains the memories of all your past smokes against which the current smoke is compared. My point is that smoking is entirely individual. Well, not entirely, else what unanimity that exists on tobaccoreviews would not be possible. I chased the myth of pipe quality for years only to discover the painful truth that unless the airway is compromised, pipes smoke more or less the same. What made a pipe superior to me was my attachment to it wrought by years of smoking my favorite blend in it. I will be selling my pipes soon, and of those I am keeping are two nondescript Dark Flake pipes smoked I guess thousands of times.
Shane Ireland on a smokingpipes blog said that the Danish masters' thousands and thousands of pipes made allowed them to shape exquisitely. No doubt true, but I likely will never be a proponent of their exorbitant and laughable prices, especially Eltang's recent foray into metallic finishes, which because he is who he is, net him hundreds of dollars above what such a pipe would otherwise sell for. Price, I believe, is best understood as what the market will bear, and the pipe market bears some outlandish prices.
I had some better pipes between $2-400.00. They smoked no better than my modest pipes. Did I like smoking them more, sure, this to say that it's impossible to separate the subjective perception of the pipe from how one regards its smoking properties; and again, one's palate is entirely subjective, at least in terms of trying to communicate its findings objectively to another.
There's no abiding truths to be found in this discussion of pipe quality, but it's fun to communicate all the thoughts we have about it.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Being new to all this I cannot seem to stop wondering about all the very expensive pipes that are shown on smokingpipes.com. Is this primarily the price of the art/craftsmanship or do they somehow perform "better"?

I.) Performance: If it's just how the smoke tastes, a double blind study could be performed where pipes are hidden and one draws smoke though a neutral tube for each pipe. AFAIK it's never been reported on.
II.) Performance: If you include all aspects of the pipe, all mentioned above, then it's a very different ballgame. I believe the differences in I. would be negligible though not zero. In II. you'll get wildly varying differences of opinion and degree of supremacy of one pipe over another. And those who'll say they can discern no difference whatsoever.

 

[kola]

300 bucks is my line in the sand. And I buy broken-in estate pipes.
Even before I retired and was fortunate enough to make 6 digit yearly incomes, 300 USD was still my cut-off on pipe purchases.
And I have no probs about the people who enjoy spending $500-2000 on a pipe.
OTOH, I prefer to spend large amounts of money on some discontiued or hard to get tobacco blends. Thank you, scalpers.

 

[ashdigger]

Everybody needs a Ryan Alden.... you'll never look back.

 

[warren]

Judging a pipe and a bowl of tobacco is purely subjective. It is dependent on the expectations of the smoker and how well the pipe and blend deliver those expectations. My expectations include; how the pipe fits my mouth and my fist, the appearance of the tool (how well it is built, the smith's work, etc.). I can get a "decent" smoke from a cob while working or, a beater briar. I only get great smokes from a well-made, well-fitted, well-finished pipe and those are not inexpensive. And, I must be in the right frame of mind to experience a "great" smoke." I usually only obtain "nirvana" in the evening with wide open sky and a campfire. I can also get that at home with crackling log on the fire, a great book, and a meerschaum hanging from my mouth.
It all depends on what you want from a bowl of tobacco. And that, for me, can very with the time of day. Everyone has different expectations and that is why some prefer "expensive" pipes over cobs. And, remember, "expensive" is also a subjective term dependent on your financial situation. Some, who haven't the resources, tend to deride finer made pipes and those who buy them. Others simply except what they can afford , or chose to afford, without deeming expensive pipes as "over-priced" and the buyers of such as "idiots" or worse.
I don't think a "double-blind study" is possible given the differences in briar. Nor, could two identical (were such possible) pipes be packed identically.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Since Bruce retired, I have a hard time bringing myself to pay more than $50 for a pipe.

 

[blackadderlxx]

<p>I'm happy for people that enjoy nice things. I also appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into *some* of these pipes. That said, whenever I have a desire for one of those expensive beauties I remind myself of the amortization schedule on my house and think about how much money in interest I could save if I took that money and paid it toward the loan principal and just smoked one of my 6 Stanwells.

 

[warren]

Wise man you are thinking of the not too distant future.

 

[jpmcwjr]

I don't think a "double-blind study" is possible given the differences in briar. Nor, could two identical (were such possible) pipes be packed identically.

Close enough in the packing to draw a conclusion.
And the study would be about differences in briar for the most part.

 

[warren]

:worship: I'll concede some validity for some smokers for a double-blind study. But only for smokers who do not require the senses of sight and feel in the experience.
I know a well-fitted pipe, great smith work if precious metals are applied, pleasing to the fist, mouth and eye, with a pleasing draw and, in the correct environment, will deliver a great smoke. Properly loaded and smoked of course. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy I suppose.
I could participate in a "double-blind" I suppose. My overly mature and abused palate, I do not taste nuanced flavors very often, would preclude me from offering anything more than one pipe might draw better than the other.