Esotericapers

[telescopes]

I agree with @cosmicfolklore , some of their blends are okay. But the price for them on the secondary market reflects only one thing; something will sell for an outrageous amount if a buyer with too much access to capital believes the object to have a certain prestige - even if the prestige is lacking any authentic value based on its qualities as compared to other similar items that lack the prestige associated with said item in question.

I have enough Esoterica to last me. I have five or so different blends. But I wouldn’t pay a dollar over retail to get more unless shipping was included, .

Have at it. And enjoy- sometimes you have to work a thing through your system.

 

[beargreasediet]

With a name like Esoterica one might wonder if there is not some magik involved, regarding the madness of the method behind the current mania. I'll now show myself back to the SS thread....

 

[Chasing Embers]

With a name like Esoterica

It was between Esoterica and Merde de Cheval but Merde de Cheval was already taken.

 

[Jacob74]

That's a load of horseshit and you know it.

 

[mingc]

Mmmmm . . . horse shit

 

[LeafErikson]

The exclusivity and implied “prestigious” nature of these tobaccos has always turned me off so I have never and will never purchase any of them.

 

[sablebrush52]

The whole mania surrounding the Esoterica line isn't a reflection of the tobaccos, which are, or were, generally quite good and quite unique. Blame pipe smokers for the current state of affairs.

The line was originally created to offer an alternative to the bespoke line of Smokers Haven blends that were originally made by Sobranie Ltd and later by Germain's. They were derived from Germain's catalog of private label blends, blends that they had created for various tobacconists. They weren't ever marketed as the "best of the best" by Germain's. That BS came from the fevered minds of their fanboys.

Being that Germain's is a small operation, turning out their blends in a decidedly old fashioned way, on centuries old equipment, output was limited. They were just another choice on the shelf, using higher grade ingredients and proper aging before release, what quality blenders, like Dunhill, Gawith, G&H, Rattray's, and others did as a matter of course.

Standards slipped with other blenders who rushed young tobaccos to market, or blends were altered to make turning out larger amounts much easier. Many of these quality blenders were sold off to conglomerates who took advantage of the reputations built by the original companies.

The panic and mania set in around 2006 when shipments from Germain's were temporarily interrupted and the mania has never stopped. But that mania was created by smokers, not by Germain's, who continued to offer their products at a reasonable price while retailers took advantage of smoker's Psychopathy Of Scarcity to charge an extra 20 to 25% over normal mark up. If something is pricey or in limited supply it MUST BE GREAT!

This is a situation that smokers created, a wound that is self inflicted.

I like many of the blends, though not all of them. I wouldn't pay more than retail and have never had to. It took no great effort to stock up over the years.

The stuff was often available on shelves for weeks ar B&Ms while people were rending their clothing and gnashing their teeth in frustration because the 3 or 4 online tobacconists who they repeated swarmed, ran out of stock due to crazed drooling hoarders. None of that is on Germain's who are what they are, a small operation, turning out their house style as they have for 200 years.

 

[LeafErikson]

The whole mania surrounding the Esoterica line isn't a reflection of the tobaccos, which are, or were, generally quite good and quite unique. Blame pipe smokers for the current state of affairs.

The line was originally created to offer an alternative to the bespoke line of Smokers Haven blends that were originally made by Sobranie Ltd and later by Germain's. They were derived from Germain's catalog of private label blends, blends that they had created for various tobacconists. They weren't ever marketed as the "best of the best" by Germain's. That BS came from the fevered minds of their fanboys.

Being that Germain's is a small operation, turning out their blends in a decidedly old fashioned way, on centuries old equipment, output was limited. They were just another choice on the shelf, using higher grade ingredients and proper aging before release, what quality blenders, like Dunhill, Gawith, G&H, Rattray's, and others did as a matter of course.

Standards slipped with other blenders who rushed young tobaccos to market, or blends were altered to make turning out larger amounts much easier. Many of these quality blenders were sold off to conglomerates who took advantage of the reputations built by the original companies.

The panic and mania set in around 2006 when shipments from Germain's were temporarily interrupted and the mania has never stopped. But that mania was created by smokers, not by Germain's, who continued to offer their products at a reasonable price while retailers took advantage of smoker's Psychopathy Of Scarcity to charge an extra 20 to 25% over normal mark up. If something is pricey or in limited supply it MUST BE GREAT!

This is a situation that smokers created, a wound that is self inflicted.

I like many of the blends, though not all of them. I wouldn't pay more than retail and have never had to. It took no great effort to stock up over the years.

The stuff was often available on shelves for weeks ar B&Ms while people were rending their clothing and gnashing their teeth in frustration because the 3 or 4 online tobacconists who they repeated swarmed, ran out of stock due to crazed drooling hoarders. None of that is on Germain's who are what they are, a small operation, turning out their house style as they have for 200 years.

I appreciate the historical context Sable it is much appreciated and it has actually changed my view of the company. Although, I do generally stick to blends that are readily available, I do sometimes really enjoy limited releases. In the “here today, gone tomorrow” climate that seems to be all too pervasive in the world of pipe tobacco it’s unsettling to think of a world in which my beloved Sir Walter Ralieigh and Pegasus become ‘unicorn blends’ that are hard to obtain. The reality is that it could easily happen as it has happened with these Esoterica blends. The fascinating world of pipe smoking micro-economics!

 

[telescopes]

@sablebrush52 I completely agree. Well said.

I can imagine a time when it suddenly becomes very hard to find Lane products. Slowly, without warning, the supplies dry up. The remaining runs become quickly bought up as buyers begin to figure out what is occurring. Without waring, Lane BCA begins trading for several times its value and suddenly, the forums are filled with threads lamenting the passing of Lane and extolling the virtues of their tobacco.

We saw this when Prince Albert supplies began to disappear before it was known that the product factory was moved to the Dominican Republic.

Esoterica has its place. But you are right, the smokers done did this one to themselves.

 

[filmguerilla]

What surprises me, is that if any other pipe tobacco company released an English or Virginia and loaded it with licorice or treacle flavorings, people would puke in disgust. But, yet, because it is so hard to get one an Esoterica, they will post with pride while they smoke their heavily topped latakia junk.

As an avid fan of Lakeland blends, I LOVE everything I have smoked by Germain/Esoterica. It's frustrating that it's difficult to obtain, but I think most genuinely want to smoke it vs. simply collecting/flipping it. And I wouldn't call ANY tobacco junk simply because I personally don't like it.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

And I wouldn't call ANY tobacco junk simply because I personally don't like it.

Then you are a better man than I, and probably a hoot at parties. I could make a list of shitty tobaccos. You must have missed my post where I ended up giving away my stash of Esotericas. I kept the Penzance, but ended up mailing off many pounds of the rest. I like a few Germain blends, but there are many other blends that I prefer.
The point of the post that you are referring too, I was mostly talking about the irony of guys who would say in one thread that they prefer the taste of natural tobacco, and then in another thread sing the praises of some heavily topped Eso brand.
If you like Esotericas, good for you. Smoke what you like, like what you smoke. But, if you haven't noticed, it's diversity of opinions that makes a forum work. Gives us something to talk about.

 

[beargreasediet]

Gives us something to talk about.

Esoterica Tobacciana is the finest tobacco ever produced! Haters gonna hate…

On a more serious note, I wonder why the brand engenders such strong reactions from folks who, by their own admission, couldn’t give a rat’s behind about it. I wonder if this is not, to one extent or another, a proxy war about larger issues…

I suspect that if we were all to gather around a few pints and bowls we would find bigger fish to fight about - and I imagine it would.be one hell of a good time

 

[PipeIT]

Oh darn, I’m late to this post, if there’s some Brighton out there, someone please PM, I’d like to get a bag.

Thanks

 

[craig61a]

Esoterica makes an excellent product, and the demand for it is still high.

Just as Gawith Hoggarth and Samuel Gawith make an excellent product that is high in demand.

The secondary market is what it is. If somebody else has it, and the vendors are out of stock, well then, the secondary market is an option provided you are willing to pay the price.

The blends that are still in production but available only once or twice a year, or have gone out production have created an opportunity for some who have made a business out of it, and I don’t see the purchases slowing down.

Of course you don’t have to buy it if you’re not comfortable with the price.

Making claims that the product isn’t as good as it used to be are sour grapes as far as I’m concerned. Indeed, there a couple thousand blends available on todays market at various price points.

 

[telescopes]

I wonder if this is not, to one extent or another, a proxy war about larger issues…

Not really. It’s about a type of behavior that eventually impedes everyone else by creating bottlenecks in other places in the tobacco world chain. Esoterica today, something else tomorrow.

 

[beargreasediet]

Not really. It’s about a type of behavior that eventually impedes everyone else by creating bottlenecks in other places in the tobacco world chain. Esoterica today, something else tomorrow.

I think that is, in part, what I’m talking about.

I wonder how many folks complain about compulsive buying, while sitting on more tobacco than they will, in all likelihood, ever smoke?

 

[craig61a]

I agree with @cosmicfolklore , some of their blends are okay. But the price for them on the secondary market reflects only one thing; something will sell for an outrageous amount if a buyer with too much access to capital believes the object to have a certain prestige - even if the prestige is lacking any authentic value based on its qualities as compared to other similar items that lack the prestige associated with said item in question.

I have enough Esoterica to last me. I have five or so different blends. But I wouldn’t pay a dollar over retail to get more unless shipping was included, .

Have at it. And enjoy- sometimes you have to work a thing through your system.

 

[Worknman]

I think part of the high demand and thus reseller prices is driven by the Chinese market. It fetches a very high price there, especially the bags which are a sort of status symbol and collectors item.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Ok, I was at The Briary yesterday, and I asked Skip if when he placed his latest order of Esoterica and Germain if they made him take some pipes to seal the deal. He laughed, said no, and asked me why I was asking. I told him that someone here had mentioned that the distributer was forcing B&M's to take Nordings along with the Esotericas.
He first said, "that just goes to show that forums are full of shit headed morons that don't know their asses from holes in the ground." :::cough cough::: Skip doesn't like forums or social media. Then he said, "it sounds more like something that would happen if someone made the order with the owner of Arango's wife, instead of the dude himself."

Take that as you like, but he said that he didn't have to make any deal on pipes to get his order of Esotericas.

 

[fireground_piper]

I thought the Briary closed?