Esoterica Tobacciana - A History?

[bogglor]

I can't speak to the qualities of the old Balkan Sobranie, but in my opinion the new one is fairly pedestrian. It's a decent Balkan that's a little more oriental forward. I'd put it in the same class as the current production My Mixture 965 or Squadron Leader. Solid citizens, all -- tobaccos that I'm certainly not going to throw away, but I'm not going to buy more of, either.
As to whether or not Germain should have reintroduced it, that's another story. I think it's probably a smart business decision on their part, given that they've now got ANOTHER tobacco in their stable that's almost impossible to get, sells out everywhere, and commands a premium in the secondary market. Sure, it's no good for those of us that have never tried Penzance or Stonehaven and "chase" those blends more, but everyone knows the Sobranie name. If Coca Cola went out of business and sold someone else their formula (granted, the new BS isn't the same, but stay with me for analogy's sake), I find it highly unlikely the recipient would just sit on it and say, "Nah, our production of our other sodas is already suffering, let's not sell this."

 

[jpberg]

JPBerg: If the new Balkan Sobranie was equal to the old, would that make a difference in your opinion that they shouldn't have reintroduced it? Makes me want to open one of the new tins and see how close it is or isn't.

In my little world, no. Of course, I don't have a nickel in it, so it's nothing for me to sit here and be preachy. I realize that the relationship between SH and JFG had become a bit tenuous (though I am led to believe that things have leveled out), and I also see the potential positives associated with the BS name. That being said, we have enough tobaccos that aren't what they once were, and while Rattray and Dunhill (and Warrior Plug, and on and on) blends may still be acceptable tobacco, I can't get excited about them.

I well realize that no tobaccos are what they "once were", crops change, geographic locations become inaccessible, etc., but as much as is possible, SG, GH and JFG have stuck to their traditional guns, and I would hate to see that change.

 

[judcole]

putting less emphasis on their lesser selling brands

You already can't get the blends they were making for Smoker's Haven. They also have the blends they make under the Germain label.

I will stick to my statement that in 5 years Germain will have wished they increased production

I would bet that they have considered everything you guys have suggested it, and rejected it for their own reasons. I am sure they have considered the costs involved - more machinery, a larger building, getting their hands on the tobacco and aging it, finding staff - especially important when your business is located on an island with less than 100,000 people. Even if they resolve all those issues, and sell more product, and make more money, are they going to be any happier? If not, why bother?
It's just like the guy who lives in a smaller town or in a rural area/ Yes, he might be able to make more money if he moved to the big city - but what would he lose in quality of life issues?

 

[misterlowercase]

Thanks Atboth for bringing the bigger picture into frame. An interesting read, especially about the leaf supplies and the amount required to be in bond.
As far as Germain and the new BS, it does seem that would eat up some production hours, slicing the pie even thinner across the already somewhat broad range of stuff they make.
I wonder what size batch runs they have?
Another thing is if it's true that the SH blends were variations of Sobranie White, then Germain's has been making BS for quite some time, yes?
Who did Arango buy the trademark from?

JTI?

And is the Arango trademark valid only in the US?
I've also read that Germain's bought some of the machinery & equipment from House of Sobranie in 1980, as well as employing former Sobranie employees. Any truth to that?
Does Germain's not import Rich Dark Flake here because it's so similar to Stonehaven?
BTW

I recently had a pouch of Warrior Plug and loved the stuff, was it ever imported here back when Murray's actually made it?
Please forgive all these questions!!!

:puffpipe:

 

[judcole]

Another thing is if it's true that the SH blends were variations of Sobranie White, then Germain's has been making BS for quite some time,

I think that SH Exotique might have been close to Sobranie White. I've smoked both, but it's been a long time since the Sobranie - better than 25 years, for sure. The others were variations of English blends.

 

[Dutch Pipe Smoker]

As far as Germain and the new BS, it does seem that would eat up some production hours, slicing the pie even thinner across the already somewhat broad range of stuff they make. I wonder what size batch runs they have?

Nooo idea. I only know that for example Penzance takes 2 weeks to make. They only have 1 press for it. See the picture.

Who did Arango buy the trademark from? JTI?

I guess so. Gallaher was bought by JTI in 2007. Do JTI still hold the rights now for Europe? They must ask a fortune for those rights. Otherwise companies like Kohlhase & Kopp would have already bought the rights and produced it.

And is the Arango trademark valid only in the US?

Guess so, none of the newer Balkan Sobranie was ever for sale here in Europe.

I've also read that Germain's bought some of the machinery & equipment from House of Sobranie in 1980, as well as employing former Sobranie employees. Any truth to that?

Where did you read that if I may ask? I also read it somewhere, but can't find the source.. :s

 

[misterlowercase]

Thanks for the additional info Arno.

Where did you read that if I may ask? I also read it somewhere, but can't find the source

I can't remember either! LOL I'm glad you confirmed it though,

that I did actually read it and it wasn't just a figment of my eldritch imagination!

Reminds me I should be taking better notes, often I'll read something in passing and not realize it's importance until later and then have difficulty finding the source. :crying:
quick check---

I can cite the bit about the machinery & equipment as coming from Jon Guss in a comment stream,

"When Sobranie shuttered their pipe tobacco factory in 1980 Germain bought some of their equipment to supplement existing facilities on the Island of Jersey..."

http://www.apassionforpipes.com/neills-blog/2011/10/15/jf-germains-revival-of-balkan-sobranie-original-mixture.html

...but I also read somewhere about the Sobranie House worker going to Germain, but I cannot find my original source for that.
Something else I read somewhere that I've lost citation for is that one of the special tricks of Sobranie House was when steaming their tobacco they would sometimes use certain herbs to infuse a very distinct flavor profile.
A whole book could be written about all the "lost arts" of tobacco manufacture and the time-consuming techniques used back in the old days...
...I read an interview with pipemaker Brad Pohlmann and he was talking about when he visited Rattray's in Perth how the blender was using some sort of gas-heated copper table or something like, to toast the tobacco.
Stuff like that is very interesting, but that info kind of falls into the "trade secret" realm, so maybe no hard data will ever be known?
Here's an article about Germain that you may be interested in, if you haven't already seen it, it's the same one that ran in the great US magazine Pipes & Tobaccos, it's a good read...

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/action/document/page?tid=bjp09b00&page=63

 

[burlpettibon]

Thanks for Necro-Bumping this thread! A lot of interesting reading!

 

[woodsroad]

one of the special tricks of Sobranie House was when steaming their tobacco they would sometimes use certain herbs to infuse a very distinct flavor profile

I do this with meats when grilling or roasting in the convection oven. A tray of hot water, with herbs and spices, to hydrate the meat as it cooks. Stands to reason that this would be an exceptional way to infuse tobacco.

 

[metalheadycigarguy]

Interesting read. Thanks for bumping the thread.

 

[thedudeabides]

MLC, I think an interesting part of that article is the section on their use of a Black Cavendish. This is rarely mentioned in descriptions or reviews of their blends, but many of the great English blends have used some sort of Cavendish (using the term to describe tobacco treated by this process).
Russ' article this month sheds some more light on this interesting process, and helps dispel a myth or two.
As a side note, your posts are always a pleasure, and I hope you are enjoying your new status as one of the site's "historians." : )

 

[neverbend]

Another perspective about JF Germain is that they are struggling to stay in afloat in a business that's under attack in most of their traditional markets.
While it might seem shortsighted on their part, adding a single worker (Five to six) would probably increase their production by 20% (or more) and they'd quickly find that they've gone from under to overstocked in a declining market and have difficulty remaining solvent.

 

[settersbrace]

Even if the inventory could be increased to a more Modern standard if bet that Penzance and Stonehave would still remain nearly un-obtainable and it's because of us stupid Americans and the current "prepper" mentality everyone seems to have. Go out and try to find a box of .22 rimfire shells and you'll see what I mean.
I was gifted a vintage sack full of Krumble Kake back in 2001 or 02 and I smoked it alongside Penzance and like Pease, I found some differences but not much. I enjoyed both and if Penzance was easier to get I'd have some layed in but since it's not, there's plenty of other great tobaccos to be had.
As is always the case, MLC has revealed some very interesting tidbits!

 

[jpmcwjr]

A blast of history from three years ago and earlier. A good read. Thanks, gents.

 

[simong]

Cracking thread/discussion! Should be more conversations like this one given the amount of members posting, instead of talking about Penzance or mixture 79.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Quite right, simon. Haven't seen you about recently. All OK?

 

[davet]

I checked in on Simon, he's doing fine. Miss his posts though.....

 

[brendhain]

Bump! Great discussion

 

[ekert]

I don't think anybody is suggesting they grow to the size of STG, but increasing their labor force to even 10 would be great.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

As I noted in another thread, last summer a young man posted a selfie on one of the Facebook pipe groups. He was standing in front of a booth at a jobs fair in the UK that had a very professionaly designed banner that read J.F. Germain and Sons. He did apply for a job there, no word that I saw on whether or not he got it.
They are currently producing a lot of product. They filled Premals order for the Smokers Haven blends. All of the domestic market tins literally had to be pulled from the shelves of all retail outlets in the UK after a certain date last year. Germain was literally unavailable except in bulk until new packaging could be distributed. The result was that shops rather quickly ran out of bulk. From looking at the web sites of UK retailers, it seems that all of the product for the domestic market is now back in stock in pouches and bulk. They seem to have a good market in Asia (Hampton Flake for example leaks back here from people doing trades or mule purchases with hobbyists in Taiwan). I can't judge the size or frequency of drops here, but I have been able to buy all I want of the lesser demand blends simply by going to the trouble of a 45 minute drive and walking in a store. That was never the case until this year. And I have managed to get Sobranie, Stonehaven and Penzance tins from IRC because I signed up to their email alerts. I have also gotten Penzance and Stonehaven bags from three different etailers this year. And the last two drops I passed on some bags because the price with shipping was too high. I used to not even look. So the product is out there.
An impressive accomplishment for seven or eight old pensioners using antiquared machinery. Really impressive.