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Jan 28, 2018
13,059
136,662
67
Sarasota, FL
Wait a minute. Don't YOU seal your tins and bags in Mylar???:)

I have some 5 gallon 7mm mylar bags that I stood a number of tins for aging over 10 years. It's likely more like 15 to 20 years before I would touch those. Regardless, read my post again. My points were about people concerned about Mason jars leaking. Keep in mind, I also have around 2,000 tins in my cellar that aren't sealed in any other manner.
 

mingc

Lifer
Jun 20, 2019
3,992
11,114
The Big Rock Candy Mountains
I wonder if your over tightening the lids on the ball jars and worsening the seal on them, not actually "locking it down." If you have a food saver they make some with and air hose that removes the air and seals the lids fantastically and then lightly screw the lid down.
That's an interesting possibility. I don't really need a food saver, but it's another toy to get!
 
Jan 28, 2018
13,059
136,662
67
Sarasota, FL
That's an interesting possibility. I don't really need a food saver, but it's another toy to get!

The lids on mason jars should only be moderately tightened. When you open a mason jar that had been sealed for months, you'll notice the flat lid has to be pried off due to the vacuum that had developed. Do not over tighten.
 

guylesss

Can't Leave
May 13, 2020
322
1,155
Brooklyn, NY
As they say your mileage may vary (and I really do hope to avoid gloating even implicitly) but ten minutes ago I opened a square tin of Penzance bought new for about $8 at the Davidoff shop on Madison Avenue in 2007. It's been at a stable temperature in the dark undisturbed ever since.

As I hoped, the seal gave with the twist of a coin. Aside from the tissue paper lining going jet black, the contents are magnificent, the moisture level perfect, and it smells glorious.

Storing wine for long periods faces so many of the same issues--corks are flawed from the get go or dry out; a bottle sits in a container baking on a dock for a few days after being landed in Texas at the height of summer; a store displays it under florescent light for six months; the owner moves house and his wine cellar a few times. And all else.

In that world, accordingly, prices quite often reflect at least some plausible guesswork about how good a particular bottle's history has been--from hints like ullage. And top dollar is often commanded by bottles that it is known remained at the chateau from the day they were bottled until placed at auction, or in the cellars of a major negociants who bought them upon release. As for a plastic pouch of Balkan Sobranie with a health warning printed in Italian being sold by someone in Germany on Ebay now--not exactly the same thing.

I am sure I've been lucky this time (and am grateful). If only I'd had a crystal ball and bought a few dozen more. And not just this one.

I know that both Greg Pease and Jesse know what they are talking about, and I've no doubt the physics of square tins vs round ones, and coin twists vs pop tops, has some relevance to the calculus. But all the tins of 15-20 year old tobacco I've opened this year have been fine. I expect I may open a dud at some point, but at least I actually know how they've been stored for most of the time. Indeed, if not everyone, I suspect many who cellar now are betting heavily on their favorites being in really sound shape long beyond seven years or 2027. But yes, mylar tape sounds like fun.
 
Last edited:

mingc

Lifer
Jun 20, 2019
3,992
11,114
The Big Rock Candy Mountains
The lids on mason jars should only be moderately tightened. When you open a mason jar that had been sealed for months, you'll notice the flat lid has to be pried off due to the vacuum that had developed. Do not over tighten.
I'm not convince the lids stick because a vacuum develops. Should be easy enough to find out though; screw a lid tight on an empty jar so there's no reason to think that a vacuum will naturally occur and see if the lid sticks after a while.
 
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Jan 28, 2018
13,059
136,662
67
Sarasota, FL
I'm not convince the lids stick because a vacuum develops. Should be easy enough to find out though; screw a lid tight on an empty jar so there's no reason to think that a vacuum will naturally occur and see if the lid sticks after a while.

You don't need to do an experiment to figure that out. Just buy a box of jars, unscrew the lids and see how difficult it is to remove the flat lids.
 

Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
43,417
109,243
I'm not convince the lids stick because a vacuum develops. Should be easy enough to find out though; screw a lid tight on an empty jar so there's no reason to think that a vacuum will naturally occur and see if the lid sticks after a while.
The dome on top of the lid depresses after being filled with tobacco and stored for a period of time. My oldest jars will "whoosh" when the lid is pried off.
 

mingc

Lifer
Jun 20, 2019
3,992
11,114
The Big Rock Candy Mountains
You don't need to do an experiment to figure that out. Just buy a box of jars, unscrew the lids and see how difficult it is to remove the flat lids.
In my experience, they stick. What's your point? Mine is that they stick because the rubber is sticky, not because there's vacuum. How would a vacuum develop in an empty jar?

The dome on top of the lid depresses after being filled with tobacco and stored for a period of time. My oldest jars will "whoosh" when the lid is pried off.
I've jars from the mid 2000s, but have never seen one where the lid gets sucked into the jar over time. I'm not saying it can't happen, just that I've never seen it myself. I certainly have GLP tins that developed bulges, but that's the opposite of a vacuum.

A whoosh can be consistent with a vacuum, but I think it's also consistent with the sudden popping of a lid that's stuck to the jar, even without a pre-existing vacuum. The sudden popping of the lid itself lowers the pressure in the jar, so there's a whoosh of air rushing in afterwards. That'd be my explanation for the whoosh.
 
Jan 28, 2018
13,059
136,662
67
Sarasota, FL
In my experience, they stick. What's your point? Mine is that they stick because the rubber is sticky, not because there's vacuum. How would a vacuum develop in an empty jar?


I've jars from the mid 2000s, but have never seen one where the lid gets sucked into the jar over time. I'm not saying it can't happen, just that I've never seen it myself. I certainly have GLP tins that developed bulges, but that's the opposite of a vacuum.

A whoosh can be consistent with a vacuum, but I think it's also consistent with the sudden popping of a lid that's stuck to the jar, even without a pre-existing vacuum. The sudden popping of the lid itself lowers the pressure in the jar, so there's a whoosh of air rushing in afterwards. That'd be my explanation for the whoosh.

My point is the flat lid sticks, when storing tobacco, due to a vacuum forming, not due to tightening down the screw lid tightly. The vacuum forms because the chemical reaction consumes the oxygen.
 

Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
43,417
109,243
A whoosh can be consistent with a vacuum, but I think it's also consistent with the sudden popping of a lid that's stuck to the jar, even without a pre-existing vacuum.
A jar opened in the same or similar atmosphere with no vacuum inside will exhibit no pressure change when opened and will not make the sound of air rushing to fill the void created by oxygen consuming bacterial aerobic activity.

Edit: After time, the lid rings will also loosen as the created vacuum in the jar tightens the lid seal.
 
May 8, 2017
1,606
1,668
Sugar Grove, IL, USA
Having last bought Esoterica on a regular basis back in that golden age when, yes, gasp. . . tins, even bags if you can believe it, of Penzance and Stonehaven--my own favorites just like everyone else-- might remain openly displayed and available for purchase for months.
In the last year, I have still seen less in-demand Esoterica and Germain's blends sit on shelves in B&M stores for weeks, if not months for blends less in demand, like Blackpool. It's the internet sources that get wiped out in minutes.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,758
45,298
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
In the last year, I have still seen less in-demand Esoterica and Germain's blends sit on shelves in B&M stores for weeks, if not months for blends less in demand, like Blackpool. It's the internet sources that get wiped out in minutes.
One of my Eso sources told me that Dorchester and And So To Bed sits on their shelves for months. If it doesn't sell, they sell it to a Chinese agent in Texas.
 

guylesss

Can't Leave
May 13, 2020
322
1,155
Brooklyn, NY
In the last year, I have still seen less in-demand Esoterica and Germain's blends sit on shelves in B&M stores for weeks, if not months for blends less in demand, like Blackpool. It's the internet sources that get wiped out in minutes.
Well, whenever this whole COVID horror is over, I'm definitely inviting you on my cross country road trip following the Esoterica trail. Hell, I'll even give you a co-producer credit for the movie.
 

Worknman

Part of the Furniture Now
Sep 23, 2019
968
2,820
I have some 5 gallon 7mm mylar bags that I stood a number of tins for aging over 10 years. It's likely more like 15 to 20 years before I would touch those. Regardless, read my post again. My points were about people concerned about Mason jars leaking. Keep in mind, I also have around 2,000 tins in my cellar that aren't sealed in any other manner.
I plan on doing this as well. Currently I have 150 or so tins in a plastic container and there's a definite tobacco odor which makes me think they're not all 100% air tight, and I need them to last 15-20 years.