Edmund Fitzgerald

[CoffeeAndBourbon]

I used to work with a lady (20 years ago) who's grandfather was the captain of a ship on the Great Lakes. He got back to port before the storm got real bad.

He and several of the other captains heard the EF was missing and went out to look for survivors.

 

[mso489]

On a car camping trip around the Great Lakes, my late wife and I bought pasties, a local sandwich specialty, and picnicked at the monument to the Fitzgerald at White Fish Point on Lake Superior.

 

[Jaylotw]

On a car camping trip around the Great Lakes, my late wife and I bought pasties, a local sandwich specialty, and picnicked at the monument to the Fitzgerald at White Fish Point on Lake Superior.

I've been there many times, it's an awesome museum!

 

[Jaylotw]

Before the Fitzgerald was constructed there were a number of Liberty Ships that suffered hull and deck cracks, that led to fatal sinkings. (The ones that come to mind most often for me were the SS Fort Mercer and SS Pendleton both of which broke apart and sank off the coast of Chatham, Mass. in February 1952. The movie "The Finest Hours" is based on the rescue of the survivors from the Pendleton."

At first the cause was believed to be the welding method used and how fast the vessels were constructed. Years later the cold temperatures of the North Atlantic was linked to the sinkings as it was believed the cold made the steel brittle and lead to cracking. The poor welding would allow the cracks to spread.

The Fitz was constructed in the late 1950s and the problem with welding and design should not have still existed. However, there are similarities between how the sinking of all three. The water in Lake Superior is definitely cold. All three vessels broke in half and sank during storms.

In my opinion, it is possible the Fitz had cracks in the hull that the twisting of the hull during the storm made worse. As for the Coast Guard "official" reason that leaking hatch covers were a contributor to the sinking, well that is also a possibility. The thing to remember is that no one was able to examine the vessel after the sinking so most of what is in the investigation report is theory and supposition and not definitive proof.

Have you heard of the Daniel J Morrell? Sank in Lake Huron in 1966, the cause being weak, brittle steel which cracked in a November storm. The story of Dennis Hale, the sole survivor, is pretty intense.

The CG's hatch cover theory was pretty hastily made, due to the first underwater footage of the wreck showing a couple clamps not dogged down. The hatch covers weigh tons, sealed with gaskets. Even with every other clamp dogged, or just the corners clamped, they wont "leak," and certainly not enough to sink a boat.

Curiously though, the first mate on the Anderson reported hearing McSorely yell, "Dont allow nobody on deck!" to someone in the Fitzgerald's pilot house while calling them to give a radar position. Why he would have to tell a bunch of experienced sailors not to go out on deck during that storm means something major must've been happening out there....

 

[pappymac]

Have you heard of the Daniel J Morrell? Sank in Lake Huron in 1966, the cause being weak, brittle steel which cracked in a November storm. The story of Dennis Hale, the sole survivor, is pretty intense.

The CG's hatch cover theory was pretty hastily made, due to the first underwater footage of the wreck showing a couple clamps not dogged down. The hatch covers weigh tons, sealed with gaskets. Even with every other clamp dogged, or just the corners clamped, they wont "leak," and certainly not enough to sink a boat.

Curiously though, the first mate on the Anderson reported hearing McSorely yell, "Dont allow nobody on deck!" to someone in the Fitzgerald's pilot house while calling them to give a radar position. Why he would have to tell a bunch of experienced sailors not to go out on deck during that storm means something major must've been happening out there....

I'm not familiar with the Morrell sinking. I managed to avoid duty in the Great Lakes area during my 21 years in the Coast Guard. That wouldn't be the first time a CG Marine Investigation reached a hasty conclusion. Sometimes these investigations came with a lot of political pressure to reach a conclusion fast. The NTSB also does maritime accident investigations but those are just as subject to outside pressure as the CG hearings.

 

[kcghost]

I have a hard time believing it sank 500 yards form shore but she did. Great Lakes shipping is rather perilous.

 

[Jaylotw]

I'm not familiar with the Morrell sinking. I managed to avoid duty in the Great Lakes area during my 21 years in the Coast Guard. That wouldn't be the first time a CG Marine Investigation reached a hasty conclusion. Sometimes these investigations came with a lot of political pressure to reach a conclusion fast. The NTSB also does maritime accident investigations but those are just as subject to outside pressure as the CG hearings.

Happy Veteran's Day!

You're very right about investigations. There are also grieving families to consider...

11/29/66-Dennis Hale Is the Sole Survivor of the Wreck of the Daniel J. Morrell https://imgur.com/gallery/ovgpmgO

Here's a post I wrote on the Morrell story, should you want to check it out. I don't mention the brittle steel as I wanted to focus on Dennis Hale's story of survival.

 

[Jaylotw]

I have a hard time believing it sank 500 yards form shore but she did. Great Lakes shipping is rather perilous.

I think you might have shore and Canadian Border mixed up, as the wreck is 8 miles off shore, but about 500 yards into Canadian waters.

 

[Jaylotw]

https://imgur.com/a/ovgpmgO

@pappymac try that link

 

[Derby]

I've been there many times, it's an awesome museum!

I’ve been to that museum as well. It is small,but very impressive. Amazing the documented number sinkings on the Lakes.

 

[Streeper541]

I managed to avoid duty in the Great Lakes area during my 21 years in the Coast Guard.

Pappymac, what was your rate? Where were you stationed?

I spent 10 years in the CG, mostly afloat. My wife just retired last month... she's the reason we're outside of Cleveland.

 

[BlackSwampPiper]

There is a slightly more modern concern that has stricken a couple of ships from Brazil, where the “motion of the ocean” and moisture content can cause the ore to move about the hold like a liquid. Iron ore (fines) - Cargo Handbook - the world's largest cargo transport guidelines website - https://www.cargohandbook.com/Iron_ore_(fines)

 

[ssjones]

https://imgur.com/a/ovgpmgO

@pappymac try that link

Wow, thanks for sharing that amazing story and great job documenting that perilous event.

 

[Jaylotw]

Pappymac, what was your rate? Where were you stationed?

I spent 10 years in the CG, mostly afloat. My wife just retired last month... she's the reason we're outside of Cleveland.

Too bad you weren't born here ?

 

[Streeper541]

Too bad you weren't born here ?

... but I got to the area as quick as I could. ?

 

[didimauw]

Wow, it seems like that event happened much longer than 46 years ago.

The Edmund Fitzgerald was loaded with Taconite pellets. As a young boy, train tracks were literally in my back yard. Many of the freight cars were filled with open containers of taconite pellets. For a young man with a wrist rocket, there was an endless supply of ammo to be found. When the Pennsylvania iron mills shut down, the trains slowed to almost non-existant and the pellets disappeared.

Spent many days launching taconite pellets at random objects! Also just now learned the name of those little round marble ball things! Fantastic! Hahaha

And I do find old ships and their history interesting. Reminds me of my dad's (and now one of my) favorite musicians Stan Rogers.

 

[Jaylotw]

Wow, thanks for sharing that amazing story and great job documenting that perilous event.

Thanks. I found imgur to be a unique way to tell stories to a "room" of strangers.

 

[pappymac]

Pappymac, what was your rate? Where were you stationed?

I spent 10 years in the CG, mostly afloat. My wife just retired last month... she's the reason we're outside of Cleveland.

I spent my must three years trying to be an engine man/machinery technician. My first 28 months after basic was on the Staten Island (WAGB 278), a wind class icebreaker. I then spent nine months at a LORAN-A station on the Washington state coast.

I started doing some freelance writing for a weekly newspaper and when the district office found out, they asked if I wanted to be a photojournalist. I said yes. I went from FN to Senior Chief in 15 years.

i was stationed in New Orleans, Gloucester City, NJ, Miami, Governors Island and then New Orleans again. Decided to retire instead of taking a transfer to Headquarters and an eventual promotion to Master Chief.

 

[craig61a]

EDMUND FITZGERALD TRIBUTE: NEW INFORMATION! - YouTube

 

[Jaylotw]

EDMUND FITZGERALD TRIBUTE: NEW INFORMATION! - YouTube

Wow, awesome! Thanks so much for sharing that. It's so good to hear people openly discussing elements of negligence in the sinking, which was really the ships demise.