E-Cigs Linked To "Popcorn Lung"

[shaintiques]

Anytime you are inhaling anything other than good O2 it can't be good for the system. Whether it is e-cig or vape juice no matter what anyone says it can't be good in the long run. Our lungs don't respond well to any foreign body, dust, fumes, smoke, etc. Even if the stuff was just water, over time that wouldn't be good either. And even though there is some second hand smoke issues it really does show why pipe smoking is the best option for smokers, no inhaling but still getting Nicotine. Cigars too also better but the mouth contact makes them less "healthy" than pipes.

 

[perdurabo]

In ten years, E-Cigs will make a come back, they'll find out that it cures HIV. Goal post Movement accomplished. Scientist these days remind me of a certain ideology.
Who knows? Popcorn lung

 

[bigpond]

I was going to write about how irksome the recent trend of ignorant, rage filled posts masquerading as intellectualism (for morons) is around here, such as;

So much for the idea that published science is infallible, since it depends on the logical reasoning abilities of those involved (and the assumption that they are not merely publishing a product to satisfy the biases of an existing audience).

Until 2 posts later someone mentioned Nazi's
and I realized the inmates are running the asylum

 

[deuce26]

The thing that concerns me about these findings is it gives the FDA more ammunition to push out its new regulations, which I'm sure many of you are aware includes catastrophic regulations on the cigar industry. I'm not sure if the proposed regulations have any limitations on pipe tobacco, but these things tend to be a slippery slope.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Oh, if I am he one that mentioned Nazis, I was really just referring to people who are enraged at smoking. I didn't mean to imply a political ideology, and I tried to amend what I said with as much. Not everything that we like or dislike is related to our political ideals. We are a many faceted beings, with lots of things impeding on our beliefs. Maybe "tobacco Nazi" wasn't the best words to use. I should have seen the impending deluge that started. Sorry. We need a better term for these folks, and I do not think that one's love or hatred of tobacco in any way has a bearing on an individual's politics. As we have seen, we are about as varied on the forum between conservative and liberal as among the non-smokers. Even at the B&M that I hang out in, I have friends with leanings to the left and right, but we unite in our passions for the hobby.

 

[deathmetal]

Nazisim was a bit more difficult to pin down, as it is really Hitlerism.

I think that's very true. Clearly it's different from Fascism sensu Franco or Mussolini.
Mussolini on fascism:

http://legacy.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/mussolini-fascism.asp

I'm making the assumption you are not talking about "classic liberals", but rather modern liberals/leftists/socialists, who are almost indistinguishable from Nazi's in their political philosophy.

With a few vital exceptions. Modern liberals are internationalists and do not support gun ownership, nor are they militaristic (except for droning).

Extreme Left is Totalitarian in all its forms, while extreme right is Anarchy.

Historically, extreme right was monarchist, which many see as a form of anarchy. You have leaders who are basically war leaders, not government.

We need a better term for these folks, and I do not think that one's love or hatred of tobacco in any way has a bearing on an individual's politics.

That's an interesting point. The question I guess is what they decide to do about their love or hatred of tobacco. Some who hate it want to make it illegal because it is morally licentious behavior; others want to make it illegal so that we can have socialized healthcare.

 

[perdurabo]

Naw, Cosmic, Nazi is a good word for the people who want to dip into your life and use the power of the almighty God power of the state to manipulate you and your personal property. Sure at some point you could say Stalinist tactics, Alinsky tactics, Nazi tactics, Maoist Tactics, Progressive tactics,etc.... It is the new progressive forward thinking way to politicize everything from cycles in weather all the way down to helmets and bicycles. Hold on, it's been popular since man discovered greed and jealousies toward the success of of his fellow man. Progressive ideals are rooted in greed and jealousies among many other mishaps. We, Cosmic do not have to feel ashamed for stating reality because of this politicalization, or the fact of others bed brothers. The shame is on them. Smok'em if you got'em, shut up if not!

 

[cosmicfolklore]

others want to make it illegal so that we can have socialized healthcare.

:::sigh::: not everyone who is against smoking is for socialized healthcare. My wife, for instance, was against it because she watched her dad die of lung cancer. Some just don't understand why someone would be involved with such. Some hate smoking because they see tobacco use as destroying their temple as Jesus commanded them to keep holy. Some hate it because they don;t like the smell. Some hate it because their husbands spend all of the money that their family could be eating on tobacco. Some hate it because aliens have spoken to them and told them to follow the ways of bigfoot and Loch Ness. Whatever. It doesn't always have to come back to black or white, left or right, or wrong and right. People are more complex than that. I have no love nor hatred for any political ideologies. I could acre less. I am more concerned with my friends, my family, and myself than some abstract game of news and media. The world around me is way more important.
This is why I like coaching debate. Once you break all of these arguments down into the rules of the game, you start to see how much nonsense it is to stake too much into either side of the debate. You truly do your best to understand both sides of the argument before you start the debate, and the rest is all about your communication skills. If we all learned more about communication than taking just one side of an argument, everything would be much better, and we would all understand each other a little better.

 

[perdurabo]

Yes death metal, the Right wing inEurpoe and Britain traditionally supported monarchy. That has differed around the globe. Right and Left have to reflect its people and type of government. Its origins of use come from the Frecnh Revolution. In America Right wing would be supporting Originalist ideals of our founding, which borders Anarchy. As little government as possible. Full government control is totalitarian and left wing. It all depends on form of government and culture. People don't like labels, especially the left. Part of the Political Correct assault of the 1st amendment.

 

[deathmetal]

not everyone who is against smoking is for socialized healthcare.

Cosmic, have your coffee! You missed something:

Some who hate it want to make it illegal because it is morally licentious behavior; others want to make it illegal so that we can have socialized healthcare.

This states nothing of the sort.

 

[deathmetal]

As little government as possible. Full government control is totalitarian and left wing.

History seems to reflect something of this. At least, people worked fewer hours under the monarchs, and had fewer rules, but under the revolutionaries from Robespierre through Stalin they had it pretty bad.
Then again, Russia will always require a strongman.

 

[perdurabo]

I understand were you come from Cosmic, Understanding both sides of the argument is paramount. Tyranny is unforgivable, though. Regardless of popcorn lung. :rofl:

 

[perdurabo]

Work hurts no one, some of us need to work a little more, so the feel good fascist can lay off the taxation.
Taking advantage of that word fascist :rofl:

 

[perdurabo]

I really have to warn my buddies about popcorn lung, I'm marching over right now to snatch that vapor thing out of their mouths. It's my moral duty to my fellow comrades, so healthcare cost will go down. :crazy:

 

[deathmetal]

I think people are over-taxed, over-worked and generally bored. Reminds me of "Eleanor Rigby," although I detest the Beatles at this point.

 

[perdurabo]

Great point Deathmetal....at that point Popcorn lung has developed the condition of boredom. Rum/per is calling. Great with tea. Hot that is.
Great points made on all sides, doubt we will meet in the middle, but hey, that's freedom baby.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I still like the idea of someone inhaling from a flashlight looking thing and then popcorn rolling out of them like a fountain. That would be the friend I would take to movies with me. ::

 

[peter70]

The chemical made responsible for popcorn lung is Diacetyl (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diacetyl). It is present in buttery flavors, so if you make a lot of microwave popcorn, you are probably exposed to it already. It is also present in cigarette smoke in 10-100 times higher concentration.
Media reports regarding e-cigs are generally biased, as the e-cig is attacking two major industries, Pharma and Tobacco. Whenever a "new" chemical is found in them, which is known to be causing cancer, you can bet it is also in cigarette smoke, but in much higher concentrations. This fact is of course mostly not mentioned.

 

[perdurabo]

Separate and attack. As many have mentioned inhaling anything is a bad Idea. peter70 I find these same issues with global warming, trans fats, etc.... It's a misdirection that the media and science uses to attack things, not giving the whole story. That's why Nazi, Left wing, totalitarian, Alinsky tactics gets brought into the conversation. Thanks for a breath of fresh air, on the popcorn lung fiasco. More proof that this was about attacking individual freedom than hard science fact. Was wondering how this one could be pulled from the throes of boredom. :lol:

 

[hawke]

Eating might not be good either, Seems everything I eat turns to crap. :rofl: