Dunhill White Spot Drama
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georged should be hired by the MythBusters team.
You have to give it to the marketing people at Dunhill, they knew how to turn copper into gold.
You have to give it to the marketing people at Dunhill, they knew how to turn copper into gold.
Then remove your head from that dark place and read a few threads where he's an active participant.
Sheesh!
Rob Cooper just now sent me the following photos.
He found a Dunhill "ivory" dot stem in a parts box that had long ago lost its stummel, and did the touch-it-with-a-red-hot-sewing-needle thing.
The result? Identical to the stem I posted at the beginning of this thread, right down to the "soft explosion" reaction w/puff of smoke and flash stain on the vulcanite around the dot.
Why (effectively) destroy a perfectly good stem, unattached or otherwise? Because there's no room for myth or legend in his dealer's world, and he wanted to settle this celluloid vs. ivory business to his own satisfaction so he could better serve his future customers.
That's known as "walking the walk", I believe. :clap:
.
He found a Dunhill "ivory" dot stem in a parts box that had long ago lost its stummel, and did the touch-it-with-a-red-hot-sewing-needle thing.
The result? Identical to the stem I posted at the beginning of this thread, right down to the "soft explosion" reaction w/puff of smoke and flash stain on the vulcanite around the dot.
Why (effectively) destroy a perfectly good stem, unattached or otherwise? Because there's no room for myth or legend in his dealer's world, and he wanted to settle this celluloid vs. ivory business to his own satisfaction so he could better serve his future customers.
That's known as "walking the walk", I believe. :clap:
.
Such brilliant and fascinating experimentation, but....
Please let's all agree the matter is settled...for the sake of the beautiful stems! This is like watching Pete Townshend make splinters out of a Rickenbacker...I don't know how much more violence I can take!!! :lol:
Really, though, well done!
Please let's all agree the matter is settled...for the sake of the beautiful stems! This is like watching Pete Townshend make splinters out of a Rickenbacker...I don't know how much more violence I can take!!! :lol:
Really, though, well done!
George, you forgot to mention that this is a 1920's era stem. So much for the ivory ban and other nonsense.
What an experiment! While collecting Zippos, I used to read about Scrimshaw Zippos a lot, there were also lots of people thinking that Zippo was using ivory. In fact:
After the collapse of USSR, 90s Azerbaijan was a chaotic place. People were importing lots of things to the country and trying to sell them as genuine products, socialism was over. Leather coats were in top 10 best sellers. In order to test whether the leather was genuine or not, you could hold a flame up to an area of the coat for a few seconds, the genuine leather wouldn't burn and the fake one would catch a flame in a second. You can't imagine how many coats were burned in 90s Azerbaijan.
Those who don't agree with George can easily heat a sewing needle and test their "ivory" white spots easily.
The most important and difficult thing in a debate is accepting being wrong IMHO. George conducted a test and proved himself wrong (thus Mr. Rob Cooper right) in a discussion against Mr. Rob Cooper and posted it on a forum. He could have hidden the results, but the results of this test was more important than his own ego.
The question is:
Can we call it Dunnie now?
Those who don't agree with George can easily heat a sewing needle and test their "ivory" white spots easily.
The most important and difficult thing in a debate is accepting being wrong IMHO. George conducted a test and proved himself wrong (thus Mr. Rob Cooper right) in a discussion against Mr. Rob Cooper and posted it on a forum. He could have hidden the results, but the results of this test was more important than his own ego.
The question is:
Can we call it Dunnie now?
I think the skeptics deserve more closure; and, of course, a safe space. I’ve therefore contacted Devin Wenig (he’s on speed dial), and Dev’s agreed that as of this moment all Dunhills sold on eBay must be first subjected to destructive testing. A national lab (the ADAC) will be set up to both test and certify; where depositions are necessary ADAC Chief Scientist Marjoe Gortner will testify as to the presence or absence of celluloid. Dev added a good thought: destructive testing will also take place on the stummel and stem, allowing certification of the presence of genuine briar and vulcanite. This should give every buyer peace of mind. And, incidentally, a baggie full of briar sawdust and mishappen rubber where a pipe used to be. I’ve already completed testing on my own collection. Unfortunately my wife thought the end result was trash and poured all the separate and meticulously labeled baggies into a garbage can. I managed to retrieve them, but now my 1927 LC is blended with my 1959 lovat, along with dozens of others. On the downside resale may prove difficult. On the plus side everything now fits in a one gallon ziplock.
I already have the two Dunhills I will ever want, so I have no dog in the dot debate.
But I do use a needle test just like this to test amber and turquoise. Real gem grade amber is closer to glass than plastic or resin. However, the resin, reconstructed, and plastic fake ambers are so readily available that I have to check, especially before buying. It can make the difference between a cabochon $0.50 or $500. And, turquoise is the same. Reconstructed and fake turquoise can even be found in some of the finer jewelry stores, mostly because they just never took the time to learn the difference.
Just don't touch an opal with a hot needle. Little microscopic bubbles in the stone is what causes the color effects, and a hot needle can turn a real opal into worthless gravel in an instant.
But I do use a needle test just like this to test amber and turquoise. Real gem grade amber is closer to glass than plastic or resin. However, the resin, reconstructed, and plastic fake ambers are so readily available that I have to check, especially before buying. It can make the difference between a cabochon $0.50 or $500. And, turquoise is the same. Reconstructed and fake turquoise can even be found in some of the finer jewelry stores, mostly because they just never took the time to learn the difference.
Just don't touch an opal with a hot needle. Little microscopic bubbles in the stone is what causes the color effects, and a hot needle can turn a real opal into worthless gravel in an instant.
And, you can make a mint selling it on eBay as a super rare Mould Your Own Dunhill kit using genuine Dunhill materials. The tag line could be "Smokes like a Dunhill!!"
@jguss:
I think Dr. Gortner stepped down recently, amid a sexual harrassment issue that occurred with a co-worker in the 70's. Dr. Barry Newman was tapped as his replacement. Photo evidence abounds.
I've now reread this entire thread for the third time. Sterling stuff.
As for George's resto skills and knowledge.... I know first hand how amazingly impeccable they are. There is more to restoring than owning a buffer and wax.
It's a shame the butthurt was so obvious to some, because this lesson is experimenting and results is just fantastic.
To those that said the sample was small...yes it was small, but the stems chosen weren't from a schlub like me. The stems were curated from experts who know the smallest details about age and construction specifics.
Occam's Razor is alive and well.
As for George's resto skills and knowledge.... I know first hand how amazingly impeccable they are. There is more to restoring than owning a buffer and wax.
It's a shame the butthurt was so obvious to some, because this lesson is experimenting and results is just fantastic.
To those that said the sample was small...yes it was small, but the stems chosen weren't from a schlub like me. The stems were curated from experts who know the smallest details about age and construction specifics.
Occam's Razor is alive and well.
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