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thomasmartin

Can't Leave
Jul 13, 2015
324
1
Unesco world heritage
The link by Walt nailes it. With machine made pipes the shaping process is enteriely made by the machine. There's absolutely no creativity involved and each pipe would look exactly the same. I've never seen a Dunhill that does look exactly the same at a closer look.

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
26,219
30,173
Carmel Valley, CA
If machines are used, it's not a hand made pipe... Hand made to me means just that, hand made, not partially by machine or finished by hand.
Then there are no handmade pipes. A lathe is a machine. How would the chamber and airway be created if a drill, which is a machine, isn't employed?
Bingo. Not to mention sanding and buffing wheels: machines.
Now, turning to other products, I wonder what there might be in the wholly hand made column? Aboriginal spears? Walking sticks, perhaps. Ah, woven baskets—some, but not those at Walmart. Oh- Many oil paintings, but not all. Any additions, folks?

 

deathmetal

Lifer
Jul 21, 2015
7,714
35
SableBrush52 nailed it, I think:
Handmade pipe - all of the shaping is controlled by hand. That's what this video shows. Machine made - the shaping process is largely automated.
The shaping is what matters. Shaped by hand, even if using electric tools = handmade. Shaped by mold or template = machine-made.

 

saltedplug

Lifer
Aug 20, 2013
5,192
5,115
Mr. Cannoy, my post was simplistic and dismissive in it's use of the words "manipulated by pipes," and I do apologize. But the point was the speed at which handmade and machine made pipes are made, not a derogation of the skill that handmade pipes require. As you say, the finger memory alone to do this is substantial, not to mention the involvement of the cortex; and to be sure the ability to flesh out a design and carry it from the mind through the hands and fingers into the wood is to be highly praised.
But after rereading the thread and watching the videos, I wonder if it is true that handmade pipes are superior to machine made. I always thought they were and that many small touches that skilled hands add could not be done with machines. But it would seem that most designs, but perhaps not the most complex, could be achieved by machines. If so handmade pipes become just another style of pipe making, albeit improved by flourishes of fit and finish.
Also, I wonder if you could comment about drilling bent pipes. I assume that the airway through the stem is fashioned before the stem is bent? If so there remains the mysterious offset at the junction of the airway and draft hole. I suppose that these are drilled in two steps, the draft first and the shank second? Is this a matter of one angle for the draft and another for the shank?

 

wcannoy

Can't Leave
Nov 29, 2012
344
5
Lakeland, FL
But after rereading the thread and watching the videos, I wonder if it is true that handmade pipes are superior to machine made.
Well, here's the simple fact about that: Handmade pipes should be as good or better quality than machine made pipes... but, sadly, they aren't always.
The proliferation of new handmade pipe brands in recent years that exhibit sub-standard workmanship, despite having above-machine-made-pipe-level prices, has already been discussed at length on this board and others. Some of the opinions (and facts) presented in that discussion have served to cast a shadowy impression of elitism and snobbery on some well informed and well intentioned professionals in the pipe industry, one of whom may or may not have the initials TJ. At the risk of suffering the same fate of character as TJ, I will state the following: There are currently as many, or more, makers of handmade pipes who are working at a "below factory pipe" level of quality, than there are makers of handmade pipes who are working at an "above factory pipe" level of quality.
That said, the factors that contribute to the level of quality lies not just in the method used to shape the stummel. The differences between the approaches to production of factory pipes and "artisan" pipes are many, and range all the way from the very important process of briar selection (which, itself, involves a butt ton of variables), to the design, shaping, construction, and "engineering", to the flourishes of fit and finish. The differing ways that factories, inexperienced artisans, and well seasoned artisans handle these factors, is fodder for a long thread of its own, at another time.
So, no, not all handmade pipes are superior to machine made pipes, as one would assume... but some are.
Also, I wonder if you could comment about drilling bent pipes. I assume that the airway through the stem is fashioned before the stem is bent? If so there remains the mysterious offset at the junction of the airway and draft hole. I suppose that these are drilled in two steps, the draft first and the shank second? Is this a matter of one angle for the draft and another for the shank?
Short answer; Yes. These are drilled in two steps, at two different angles... sometimes.
Long answer; Ok, allow me to use this seemingly simple question to illustrate some different approaches to this one aspect of pipemaking.
I will use as an example this bent egg of my own make:
Walt-Cannoy-Danish-Bent-Egg-Smooth-Handmade-Briar-Pipe_1982.jpg

You can see in this illustration that if the angle of the draft hole were to be drilled along the same axis as the angle of the mortise, the draft hole would miss the bottom of the chamber and protrude from the bottom of the pipe:
Bent-Drilling-Graphic-1.jpg

To avoid this tragic fate, the draft hole must be drilled at a different angle than the mortise to achieve this bend in the shank. This can be done a couple of different ways, depending on the makers approach to the problem.
The first option, seen in many factory pipes, and some handmade pipes, is to drill the airway high in the mortise floor, leaving a small gap between the end of the tenon and the mortise floor for the smoke to travel through:
Bent-Drilling-Graphic-3.jpg

This is a quick and easy way to solve the problem, but perhaps not the most desirable in terms of airflow and smoking properties due to the offset of the airway at this intersection. This method is also less likely to pass a pipecleaner.
You can see the results of this method in the mortise of this Blakemar briar:
Blakemar-Briar.jpg

A little work-around of this design, used to help airflow and to pass a pipecleaner, is to "ramp" the draft hole where it meets the mortise floor. It's a little extra step, a quick fix to a easy solution.
Bent-Drilling-Graphic-6.jpg

This "ramping" is generally seen as more desirable than a simple off-set airway, although it incorporates a tiny expansion chamber that does not serve to maintain a consistent volume of airflow.
A different method, commonly used in most handmade pipes, and some factory pipes, that will ensure proper alignment of the airway from the shank through the stem, is to drill the draft hole low on the shank face, through the center of the mortise floor.
Bent-Drilling-Graphic-2.jpg

This approach is used by the makers who chose to concern themselves with proper airflow, but it does present the additional problem of creating what pipemakers call the "keyhole" effect on the shank face, as seen in this pipe that frozenchurchwarden posted some time back:
frozenchurchwarden.jpg

Some might find this method unsightly, but only if you take the stem off, so some more diligent makers will take the extra time to cap off the shank after drilling to hide this keyhole.
Bent-Drilling-Graphic-4.jpg

Of course, while now hidden, the keyhole is still there, and while the keyhole rarely becomes a problem, it can sometimes lead to a "locked stem". This is where the heating and cooling cycles of the tenon create a bulge on the tenon into the channel of the keyhole, making it difficult, or impossible to twist the stem and remove it.
WP_20150801_004.jpg

Yes, the bulge is slight, but enough to lock the stem in place, and enough to crack the shank if forced.
So, what is the most detail oriented pipemaker to do in order to solve all of these problems? How about this: Drill the draft hole centered on the mortise floor to ensure that the airway is aligned properly. After all, that is the most important aspect of a smoking pipe... that it smokes properly! Then, drill the mortise oversize, and line the mortise with a sleeve of briar eliminating the keyhole:
Bent-Drilling-Graphic-5.jpg

Although painstakingly time consuming, the implementation of this method will leave the shank face looking like this:
Walt-Cannoy-Danish-Bent-Egg-Smooth-Handmade-Briar-Pipe_1998.jpg

Finally, one more method of drilling a "bent" pipe to overcome all of these problems is to just change the shape of the pipe:
Bent-Drilling-Graphic-7.jpg

But this is the easy way out. It compromises the possibilities in shaping and flow of the pipe's design, and it can be argued that this is not a pipe with a bent shank at all, but a pipe with an "angled" shank. But that's an argument for another forum: Bent Pipes: Shank Angles and Curves - Two Case Studies

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
26,219
30,173
Carmel Valley, CA
Great expo! Thank you.
A question related to the relation of the bottom of the chamber and the draft hole: Must, for good smoking dynamics, they be absolutely congruous? I've read a poster who was irate that the draft hole came in 1/8 inch above the bottom of the chamber. I thought, BFD! But I'd rather have an expert's opinion....I can understand an aesthetic disappointment, but feel that all things being equal, it shouldn't make a difference.

 

wcannoy

Can't Leave
Nov 29, 2012
344
5
Lakeland, FL
A question related to the relation of the bottom of the chamber and the draft hole: Must, for good smoking dynamics, they be absolutely congruous?
Must it? Nope. A draft hole drilled a little high should smoke fine, but maybe leave a little tobacco unburned in the bottom. A draft hole drilled too low, below the dead bottom of the chamber, is likely to gurgle and/or whistle.
Most importantly, a draft hole drilled perfectly is a sign of quality, high standards, and attention to detail.
*edit:
I can understand an aesthetic disappointment, but feel that all things being equal, it shouldn't make a difference.
That is to say, if I paid big bucks for a pipe and it wasn't drilled perfectly, I'd be upset about it too, regardless of how it smoked!

 
Before table saws, drill presses, and lathes, guys like Hepplewhite and Chippendale would walk into a patron's home with a simple box of hand tools and make some of the finest furniture in the world, still the finest in the world to this day. I've watched guys at woodworker demos do this still. But, their work is so expensive that you will not see people lining up to buy it. Guys used to cut facets in stones by eye, and now they use calipered dops (aka - cheaters), and this is the industry norm. I've watched my uncle cut a perfectly round chamber for a pipe with a pocket knife. It is possible, and there are little pockets of the world where people still make things all by hand, but mostly for hobby. You cannot make a living by doing everything by hand. And, those of us who still try get washed aside by prices competing with people who use machines thusly labeling their work as "handmade." The customer no longer knows the difference because of all of this muddying of the terminology as we have seen in this thread, justifying the terms.
I still love these pipes, and like I said almost a year ago, I cannot fix the industry. So, why try.
But, it is possible for human beings to make amazing things by hand. I still get pissed everytime I hear some idiot on the History Channel refer to the pyramids as "too perfect" to have been made by human hand, when we have museums of perfect things made by hand. Humans still do this, but they are washed aside by this dumbing down of the consumer base. People buying chairs they are told are handmade, but made using drill presses and table saws, while the guys who are really making chairs by hand get lumped in comparatively with these other categories.
So, I will get into my handmade Ford truck, and drive on these handmade roads, to my artisan made home to smoke my pipe made by engineers. Oh what a glorious thing we have in this age of handmade things made with precision gauges and machines. Because of course our forefathers were all just monkeys with hammers being ruled by aliens from outerspace, if you buy into that History Channel malarchy. Call it all handmade, elfin made, or magically delicious, because that is what everyone else is doing these days... whatever. There are still some of us who appreciate the things made by hand (real handmade), even if the market prevents these guys from making a living at what they do. I am just glad that the human spirit keeps folks interested in actually making this stuff by hand. Human beings can actually be pretty amazing sometimes.
All that said, I still appreciate these pipemakers and their work, even if they do rely on machines and cannot make a perfect circular chamber for a pipe by hand any more, no matter what they call it. :puffy:
Posted from a handmade computer.

 

wcannoy

Can't Leave
Nov 29, 2012
344
5
Lakeland, FL
Cosmic, you're right, of course. But... here's the "but" :lol:
The only time I've seen a pipe being made without power tools is the occasional ya-hoo on the youtube, a hobbyist who just wants to see it done. There are no professional pipemakers making pipes without power tools.
Hence my "built in caveat" in my fist post: "This is generally how those of us who work in the pipe industry distinguish between Machine Made and Hand Made". This was less about proving a point, and more about explaining the difference in terminology as it is used between makers, wholesalers, importers, and retailers.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
20,666
48,771
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Walt,
Thanks for the fantastic presentation! Absolutists will look long and hard to find anything that supports their position. I suppose we could think of handmade as hand guided and hand finished. Machines are always involved. Even the fellow whittling away on a block of wood to make a pipe using nothing but a folding knife would be producing a machine made pipe if you use the definition for the word "machine" and employ it in absolute terms.
As for hand made being inherently better than machine made, or vice versa, there's no evidence to support such a statement, and there's no logic to it either.

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
26,219
30,173
Carmel Valley, CA
Here's an idea: Are there not directional drilling bits? Well, the only ones I know about are on drill rigs going down thousands of feet, so it's a bit of a stretch to shrink that down by a factor of several thousand. But it'd be cool if there were such a device that could drill in the center of a curved shank to the precise location desired at the bottom of the chamber. Shank would be stronger, too!

 
Oh, absolutist? What?
Anyways, I never made a claim that hand carved pipes are better by any means. There are mediums such as metals, where handmade is way less porous than casted, thus I can crush a gold ring bought at the mall easily with my shoe, whereas a handmade ring would burry into the heal of my boot long before it would bend or crush. But, that's oranges to apples.
I was merely responding to the dialog. I have Dunhills and I wouldn't say they are any better or worse than any other pipe in my arsenal. But, I wouldn't say that I am an absolutist. Just a witness to the evolution of our language and consumer responses. I do not lie awake at night letting this bother me, ha ha.
But, there are guys out there making beautiful things by hands. And, I mentioned that there is no way for a craftsman today to compete with machines. Although, I think a knife a far cry from a machine by any definition. Yeh, I've seen hack jobs done by guys claiming these were handmade. The industrial revolution and the use of briar in pipes happened simultaneously, so we don't have any Chippendale pipemakers in museums. We do, however, have many examples of Native American pipes in museums. But, of course Sable is going to bawk at this and say they don't smoke as good as anything today, ha ha! So, I will give you guys the floor.
I will just end by saying that I put Walt's work in pipes as the finest in American pipemaking in design, creativity, and quality, no matter what he calls it. Bar none, no other American pipemaker compares.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
20,666
48,771
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Hi Cosmic,
Actually I was thinking of the gentleman who posted this earlier in this thread:
If machines are used, it's not a hand made pipe... Hand made to me means just that, hand made, not partially by machine or finished by hand.
I'd say that is pretty absolute.
But, of course Sable is going to bawk at this and say they don't smoke as good as anything today, ha ha!
My oldest pipe in rotation dates to 1882. I don't think that qualifies me as a modernist.
Although, I think a knife a far cry from a machine by any definition.
Merriam Webster definition of the word, machine: (1) : an assemblage of parts that transmit forces, motion, and energy one to another in a predetermined manner (2) : an instrument (as a lever) designed to transmit or modify the application of power, force, or motion
Heh... :puffy:

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
26,219
30,173
Carmel Valley, CA
OK, I guess the only handmade item I have is a walking stick, one I ripped (no saw!) off the tree, and broke it to length over my knee. And the occasional wind block I make out of an almond hull. (half of one)

 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
6,010
16,264
OK, I guess the only handmade item I have is a walking stick, one I ripped (no saw!) off the tree, and broke it to length over my knee.
A close look at that sentence reveals a problem.
No knee-usage allowed, I'm afraid. That's a fulcrum. A rudimentary machine.
Nice try, though.

 
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