Dunhill Controversy
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For some reason, I can't get the OP video to work.
Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYnTrQDhGTk
Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYnTrQDhGTk
I also have a fuzzy view of 'handmade'.
I admit though that it is a rigid standard I adhere to when shopping for a pipe now.
I now look for "handmade" (which may indeed mean hand finished, or at least fondled a lot by a hand prior to shipping, lol)
I look for artisan pipes: Cooke, Von Erck, Layton, etc or the upper Italian makers: Castello, Cavicchi, Becker, etc.
I admit though that it is a rigid standard I adhere to when shopping for a pipe now.
I now look for "handmade" (which may indeed mean hand finished, or at least fondled a lot by a hand prior to shipping, lol)
I look for artisan pipes: Cooke, Von Erck, Layton, etc or the upper Italian makers: Castello, Cavicchi, Becker, etc.
If machines are used, it's not a hand made pipe... Hand made to me means just that, hand made, not partially by machine or finished by hand.
I guess my view is that a machine (non-CDC) is a tool that allows the task to be performed more efficiently. It still requires a skilled operator to produce the right results. I'm not sure anyone is drilling bowls or stems by hand any more so if using some form of machine makes it a machine made pipe, 99.9% of the pipes made today would probably fit that description. The break point IMHO is does the craftsman control the outcome or is the process automated. What tools he or she used is more a reflection of the times and economics. I think pipes made as shown in the video can be fairly called "hand made" as the craftsman controls the outcome for the most part. It's the hand of the craftsman that controls the machine's output. He just used a mechanized tool to do it.
Then there are no handmade pipes. A lathe is a machine.
How would the chamber and airway be created if a drill, which is a machine, isn't employed?
Even the process of preparing briar to become pipe bowls involves machines at every stage. For example, cutters use power saws to cut up the briar.
The video shows a Dunhill being made by machine, with quite a bit of handwork involved. But not all Dunhills were made this way after 1967 when they brought in fraising machines and mechanized much more of the process. It was a smart move.
And "machine made" isn't better or worse than "hand made". It's just different.
The video about the manufacture of Dunhill pipes changed my understanding of how high-end pipes are made. Given that pipe makers earn their living by their craft, machines that quicken the process of their making are only limited by the maker's ability to afford them, though I suppose they are some that prefer working by hand and others that feel that the flourishes of excellence that can be produced by hand cannot be produced by machine. But I question by whose eyes the latter can be seen?
In this regard I asked a well-known pipe seller just what these flourishes are, and for his analysis offered an Askwith morta billiard that though certainly an example of a high-end in my collection, was by no means all that dear. He said he doubted he would find much to say about what it lacked in comparison to the loftily-priced. I think he was being very honest. I'm thinking that only reputation, artful deviance from a known shape and by this the elaboration on a region's school, such as Italian, or what has become an international school, such as Danish, and pretty wood, constitute constitute the cream of the briar crop;
Back to those features that only the maker and probably the very selective collector can detect. But as the rest of us can only talk capably of a Nording, and at the next higher rung, an Ashton or a Ferndown, as pipes below ~$300.00 are the only pipes that we smoke, and as we do that pass through our hands, offering themselves up for our analysis, how can we have any reliable estimation of these details? I've never even held an Eltang or a Florov, let alone owned one. All I can really know are the pipes that I have smoked repeatedly; otherwise I am just analyzing by pictures and someone else's words who has a vested interest in making a sale.
I'm sure you have all seen the pricing of fine smooths go through the roof. On a familiar site one such Florov has climbed to $3,000.00, and let another such Lasse Skovgaard roll in and it is priced at $2,000.00. I question how any 6 inch piece of wood, however artfully contrived, can ever be worth so much. Such sites should have a "filthy rich" button that can only be clicked by those that can withstand the appropriate credit check; then and only then can they see these dubiously meritorious 6 inch pieces of wood. The huddling masses who can only pony up a tenth of such cash don't need to see what they in all probability will never afford. Of course then I would fuss that I was excluded.
But this button would save me a good deal of head-scratching in confronting an alien world of monstrous amounts of disposable income.
In this regard I asked a well-known pipe seller just what these flourishes are, and for his analysis offered an Askwith morta billiard that though certainly an example of a high-end in my collection, was by no means all that dear. He said he doubted he would find much to say about what it lacked in comparison to the loftily-priced. I think he was being very honest. I'm thinking that only reputation, artful deviance from a known shape and by this the elaboration on a region's school, such as Italian, or what has become an international school, such as Danish, and pretty wood, constitute constitute the cream of the briar crop;
Back to those features that only the maker and probably the very selective collector can detect. But as the rest of us can only talk capably of a Nording, and at the next higher rung, an Ashton or a Ferndown, as pipes below ~$300.00 are the only pipes that we smoke, and as we do that pass through our hands, offering themselves up for our analysis, how can we have any reliable estimation of these details? I've never even held an Eltang or a Florov, let alone owned one. All I can really know are the pipes that I have smoked repeatedly; otherwise I am just analyzing by pictures and someone else's words who has a vested interest in making a sale.
I'm sure you have all seen the pricing of fine smooths go through the roof. On a familiar site one such Florov has climbed to $3,000.00, and let another such Lasse Skovgaard roll in and it is priced at $2,000.00. I question how any 6 inch piece of wood, however artfully contrived, can ever be worth so much. Such sites should have a "filthy rich" button that can only be clicked by those that can withstand the appropriate credit check; then and only then can they see these dubiously meritorious 6 inch pieces of wood. The huddling masses who can only pony up a tenth of such cash don't need to see what they in all probability will never afford. Of course then I would fuss that I was excluded.
But this button would save me a good deal of head-scratching in confronting an alien world of monstrous amounts of disposable income.
Btw: I love Dunhill pipes. I smoked a lot of brands cheap and pricey. Factory or artisan. Hand- or whateveryoucallitmade. I've come to limit using Dunhills and dumped everything else (save for a gorgeous Stanwell straight grain and some Davidoffs which have a purely sentimental value to me). I don't know why. They just speak to me and they ooze class and tradition.
This is generally how those of us who work in the pipe industry distinguish between Machine Made and Hand Made:
https://youtu.be/cu2K4eCPgI4
https://youtu.be/cu2K4eCPgI4
There doesn't appear to be much distinction between machine and hand made other than hands manipulating tools, or providing the interface to the machine, are involved in hand made. I've heard makers say that they spend a week or more making a pipe, but from the video, either of the methods are quick.
4nogginsmike,
Yes, hands manipulating tools. I dare say, no pipe would ever be made if hands could not manipulate tools.
The "machine made" pipes are the same every time. The profile is determined by the configuration of the cutting head. The "hand made" pipes rely directly on each tiny movement of the makers hand to form the shape of the pipe.
Honestly, I really don't see where the confusion is. If a pipemaker had to rely on only rasps and files to shape a handmade pipe, nobody would be able to afford one. (Well, not a decent looking one anyway.)
And although I inserted clips of similar lengths for each method, shaping a pipe by hand using a wood lathe is not nearly as quick as a machine shaping a pipe.
In this clip, you can see that it takes me over ten minutes to do what a machine does in seconds:
https://youtu.be/sWTWMBkCYFs
Yes, hands manipulating tools. I dare say, no pipe would ever be made if hands could not manipulate tools.
The "machine made" pipes are the same every time. The profile is determined by the configuration of the cutting head. The "hand made" pipes rely directly on each tiny movement of the makers hand to form the shape of the pipe.
Honestly, I really don't see where the confusion is. If a pipemaker had to rely on only rasps and files to shape a handmade pipe, nobody would be able to afford one. (Well, not a decent looking one anyway.)
And although I inserted clips of similar lengths for each method, shaping a pipe by hand using a wood lathe is not nearly as quick as a machine shaping a pipe.
In this clip, you can see that it takes me over ten minutes to do what a machine does in seconds:
https://youtu.be/sWTWMBkCYFs
You'll have a hard time finding someone that bought a Dunhill who will then say that acquiring the pipe was a let-down...myself included. An early direction in collecting for me was buying just artisan made pipes. After meeting some of these pipe makers, I noticed that more than a few owned some Dunhills in their own collections. That probably at least in part, caused me to give the brand a closer look. I've seen a lot of pipes along the way, both machine-made and hand made, and IMO Dunhills compare favorably to about any other pipe from a factory, as well as to some pipe makers that charge about what a nice estate Dunhill sells for. Experiencing the variety of pipe marques out there is probably the best way to get to know how to discern aspects of one pipe vs another. Anyway, long story short, Dunhill seems to be an easy target because by criticizing their products, no one is risking insulting an individual. Makes sense. I wouldn't go out on a limb and name any makers that to me, were priced comparably but compared unfavorably to Dunhills. On a positive note though, I will say that someone (here within this thread) makes very nice pipes as he is truly skilled in the manipulation of tools.
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