Dunhill Controversy

[iamn8]

Tis my belief that everyone here should watch this video from Discovery Channels How It's Made. Then tell me if they're hand made or machine made because while they use machines, to me these pipes are hand made. Machine made to me means that no hands were involved.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BcmBL9bv_0I

 

[numbersix]

Welcome to the forums. That was a good find and I think I would agree. Based on the video, to my way of thinking, that is a hand-made pipe.

 

[warren]

This subject has been well covered in various threads. Most rough shapes (ebauchon) are now machine created, many turned on mechanical lathes, with final shaping usually accomplished by hand and then the finish may be applied by hand or machine. I believe, perhaps incorrectly, artisan pipe makers start with a machine cut ebauchon.
"Hand-made" is a nebulous term. Whether the term may be applied to a product is many times determined by various government regulations. It's similar to the term "made in USA." That designation may be applied, in some cases, when only a small percentage of the parts are actually made in America and is also dependent on whether the product is assembled in the country. It's all very confusing and creates lots of moneys for attorneys. Oh! And lots of confusion on the part of the consumer.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Yeh, it doesn't mean what it used to... Take a Nording Valhalla for example. You can take two with that rusticated carving of lava flowing down the stummel, and they are identical down to the fine bumps on the rusticated parts. and, he uses all injection molded stems, and stamps "handmade" on them. Maybe if a pipe has ever touched hands, they call it handmade.
However, the American Arts Council defines handmade verses machine made as handmade has been created with all handtools and machine-made as anything that has had electrical machines involved. So, according to them, if the maker used a lathe, it's machine-made. But, pipes don't fall within their framework, so who cares about their definition, right?
All of that aside, it would be impossible for an artist to meet production needs without some sort of production tools. There are very few pipes that are made without being held in hand. I know that even the old peg and slot frazed stummels have to be finished by hand. And, a few pipe makers use CNC machines to create digitally designed pipes. But, the cost of operating CNC makes them almost as expensive as "handmade."
The downside is that people are losing the craftmanship that goes into using handtools. I am one of the few jewelers recognized by the AAC as a handmade artist. But, when a customer holds my work in hand, they just assume that I used casting, unless they have watched me work or understand what my work is all about. Even the pipes that I have made, I chock the stummels into a vice and used a chisel to crave them, but I've just done this for my own experience in making something for myself.
When you got to museums and look at the furniture made before the 60's, you're looking at things made by a craftsman that could store all of their tools in a box the size of a suitcase. People forget this stuff. And, this is why we get idiot shows on the History channel saying that the pyramid could only be made by aliens. We assume that because "we" can't do that, that no one can, making us dumber and dumber as a people. (/rant) LOL

 

[wyfbane]

Well Said. I agree with all said and lament the loss of our identity, as it were, as we succumb to reliance on machines for everything.

 

[allan]

Mike
I had always thought that 'hand wrought' was the definition for partial hand and partial power tool/machine made items in the craft world.
To be hand made, no pre-formed or die struck or castings could be used.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

"Wraught" as opposed to handmade? I'm not sure. I'm only going by what I remember off the cuff from the AAC. And, I may have the term wrong. I'm getting old and I often call my kids by the dog's name, ha ha.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

However, it's not a government thing. Terms in manufacturing and art production are governed by coops funded by dues from artists, craftsmen, and manufacturers. Yeh, we pay teams of lawyers to protect us, so maybe you can call that a government of sorts. But, it's just guys all pitching in to protect us as a group. The AAC, ANSI, and MJSA are the only ones that I affiliate with. But, there is no actual policing of laws or terms, beyond these organizations made up of us in the field.

Europe is a little different. Those guys have to have everything they've made hallmarked by actual government offices. Here, in the US, it is buyer beware. I could stamp anything with a 24k hallmark, and the only power anyone has to stop me, is my peers and these organizations.

 

[warren]

"Wrought" means hammered or worked into shape. It's usually associated with metal working. My wife was a metal and wire working artist. So possibly "hand wrought" in this usage means "hand shaped" which could cover a myriad of steps.
Would the use of a small rotary tool, used in hand, cover "hand wrought?"

 

[sablebrush52]

Handmade pipe - all of the shaping is controlled by hand. That's what this video shows. Machine made - the shaping process is largely automated.
Where a bowl may go through a "cut down" process, reshaping to address imperfections in the wood during a handmade process, no such step takes place in a machine made process.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

I had always assumed that Dunhill pipes were handmade pipes and this shows that they are. They are factory handmade pipes, in that there is an "assembly line" where different experts work on different aspects of the pipe's construction, but that doesn't change the fact that they are handmade pipes.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I realize that the pipe world is sort of different, but with this terminology Steelcase office furniture is handmade. I worked a short stint making it. A hand is guiding it through the process of bending, welding, and spray coating. Or, all cars up until automated assembly, like the 90's? Even mobile homes are handmade, by this thought process. I'm not about to try to "straighten out" the pipe industry, but it is a very liberal use of terminology. I guess the field leveler is videos like this that show that handmade does not in any way imply uniqueness of the individual object.
You can buy two of these for the price of a Dunhill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4Jsrtx2j_s

Ha ha, but I don't want to smoke a person's head, lol.

I think the important part of any product is disclosure. However, there are still a few out there that think Dunhills come from unicorn asses, ha ha!!

 

[sablebrush52]

I had always assumed that Dunhill pipes were handmade pipes and this shows that they are. They are factory handmade pipes, in that there is an "assembly line" where different experts work on different aspects of the pipe's construction, but that doesn't change the fact that they are handmade pipes.

Some are handmade, most are machine made.

 

[porshcigar]

Great video. Thank you for posting.

 

[woodsroad]

What the video shows is that the true value of a Dunhill resides in its name.
.

 

[spud]

I have tried to cut brair wood with a rasp and with wood carving knifes, It ain't easy. Shaping a pipe with hand tools only is really tough. I would compare it with making a pistol from a block of steel with a file and a hand turned drill. I don't have the patience to put in that kind of time.

 

[dukdalf]

To me, the difference between 'machine-made' and 'hand-made' is in the numbers, not the tools. A handmade pipe is turned from an ebauchon on a lathe and drilled with a power drill, one at a time. So-called machine-made pipes are turned by the dozen or more, all day long if need be, on a replicating lathe.

 

[woodsroad]

Hand Made is made by hand.
Perhaps using hand tools. Perhaps using hand power tools
Lots of wiggle room.
One thing is certain: A CNC-cut pipe is not hand made. It may be the best looking and best smoking pipe in the world, though.

 

[lestrout]

re CNC technology, aren't the new Icarus pipes introduced at the Chicago Show made that way?
hp

les

 

[woodsroad]

Yes, Les, they are.

I think it's long overdue.
In theory, you can take an exceptional pipe design and spit 'em out by the thousands, with the only variable being the materials. Then again, you could make thousands of identically really bad pipes, too, but.....