Also, six months isn't cellaring, as you know. It works for you, good thing, but I just don't want others to think it's a tried and true method for long term cellaring.
Different Kind of Storage Question
- Thread starter Country Bladesmith
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Great! A time lapse vid covering about ten years would be a great project. An internal hygrometer featured on the tub would be a critical element.....
Whatever...those that never try new things never learn nor get ahead! (I forgot who said that, but someone did.)
I agree with the bags because most bags aren't microwaveable to high temperatures (i.e., you can microwave them to thaw, but not actually heat). These containers you can cook things in. I have no idea what they coat them with, but obviously it is something that doesn't transfer the plastic taste to the food. I've never tasted plastic in my tobacco using these.
Well, it can only become "tried and true" if someone actually tries it, right?
I just received the Michaels soda crate in the mail yesterday. I am going to see about how about stain or painting it, or just leave it be.
It has some sort of MDF smooth composite boards and I am not sure they can take any finish....and then find a place on the wall for it....so I can start with the 2oz tins....bulk goes on the wall....unless it is from KBV then I cellar what I am not using and leave in his sealed bags..
Cheap set up, pre-made corbels and one piece of pine from Home Depot....stained and finished for under 20 bucks.
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It has some sort of MDF smooth composite boards and I am not sure they can take any finish....and then find a place on the wall for it....so I can start with the 2oz tins....bulk goes on the wall....unless it is from KBV then I cellar what I am not using and leave in his sealed bags..
Cheap set up, pre-made corbels and one piece of pine from Home Depot....stained and finished for under 20 bucks.
.
I won’t be using any plastic containers. I might be willing to try the Mylar bags, but I have pounds of Virginia based blends to cellar. I really don’t trust anything other than mason jars or original tins for the long haul, and I’m even leery of some tins.
Context!
I said "no" to your assertion that holding liquid=airtight. That's just a fact of physics.
Those containers may also be airtight, but the proof is not that they hold water.
The thing with mylar is there’s mylar, which is clear polymer sheeting, metalized mylar with a layer of metal only a half-micron thick and looks like foil, and mylar/foil laminates which have a layer of aluminum foil sandwiched between two layers of mylar.
The key factors here are the rate at which moisture passes through these materials, the length of time you plan to store them, and how well it is sealed.
Metalized mylar is about 40 times more effective at retaining moisture than plain mylar, so skip the clear bags. Foil is essentially impermeable by moisture, so well-sealed bags made of foil laminate (AKA “moisture barrier bags”) are likely superior to coin tins because they do not have a rubber seal. They may, however, eventually become brittle. But that’s just a guess on my part.
Regarding the seal, mylar bags, especially the foil laminated ones, are more difficult to heat seal than plastic bags. Gussetted bags with a seam in the center of the bag are extremely hard to seal. You can use an iron or a specialized sealer, but your Foodsaver won’t do the job, most likely. My chamber vacuum sealer can seal simple open-top metalized mylar bags.
Lastly, many mylar bags have ziplock seals. These are intended for use after opening and not for long-term storage. You must heat seal all mylar bags for reliable long-term storage.
I use Mylar bags of various types as part of my arsenal. Use the right tool for the job. Many HU tobaccos are packed in 100g paint can tins, which have a reputation for being only for short-term storage, so I sealed the contents in metalized mylar, then put them back inside the tin. It’s far too soon to know if that strategy is sound. I just opened a 40g bag of HU Edward G. Robinson ribbon cut tobacco which I packed a couple months ago. It was almost like a cake-style tobacco from being compressed in the bag.
The key factors here are the rate at which moisture passes through these materials, the length of time you plan to store them, and how well it is sealed.
Metalized mylar is about 40 times more effective at retaining moisture than plain mylar, so skip the clear bags. Foil is essentially impermeable by moisture, so well-sealed bags made of foil laminate (AKA “moisture barrier bags”) are likely superior to coin tins because they do not have a rubber seal. They may, however, eventually become brittle. But that’s just a guess on my part.
Regarding the seal, mylar bags, especially the foil laminated ones, are more difficult to heat seal than plastic bags. Gussetted bags with a seam in the center of the bag are extremely hard to seal. You can use an iron or a specialized sealer, but your Foodsaver won’t do the job, most likely. My chamber vacuum sealer can seal simple open-top metalized mylar bags.
Lastly, many mylar bags have ziplock seals. These are intended for use after opening and not for long-term storage. You must heat seal all mylar bags for reliable long-term storage.
I use Mylar bags of various types as part of my arsenal. Use the right tool for the job. Many HU tobaccos are packed in 100g paint can tins, which have a reputation for being only for short-term storage, so I sealed the contents in metalized mylar, then put them back inside the tin. It’s far too soon to know if that strategy is sound. I just opened a 40g bag of HU Edward G. Robinson ribbon cut tobacco which I packed a couple months ago. It was almost like a cake-style tobacco from being compressed in the bag.
Boy, you certainly are a pretentious sort aren't you. It's pipe smoking for god's sake, not rocket science, lighten up...you'll give yourself a hernia.
I know they say it’s fine but I do not trust Mylar long term. How does one know that tobacco doesn’t cause some chemical or element to leach out into the product? It’s really untested territory IMO. What’s the longest someone has stored in Mylar?
now sealing a tin inside Mylar I would feel is safe.
now sealing a tin inside Mylar I would feel is safe.
You have to answer two questions by yourself in order to decide what is the best storage system: 1. What is the time frame of storage? 2. What is the space situation of the storage and particularly if you have space limitations?.
If you time frame is less than 1 year basically everything can work, it is just a matter of personal preference.
If it is more than 1 year it has to be taken out of the equation anything with plastic, there is always some transpiration (look at a plastic water bottle how it collapse within a couple of years).
For long term storage two materials which are air tight are left: a. glass (mason jar), b. metal (mylar). Additionally it can be left original tin if you are ok to take the risk a very small number of tins could lose the seal (which can be avoided sealing them with aluminum tape) or rusting in the inside (I would be ok to take the risk as I consider it negligible).
If space is not an issue mason jar is proved to be very effective, but it takes place (and weight) and if this is an issue mylar bag is a very viable option.
Anything else (which means essentially compromising with plastic) I see as a shortcoming and not worthwhile to pursue for long term storage.
But finally is your time frame and your place which dictate the choice so only you can make the right decision.
If you time frame is less than 1 year basically everything can work, it is just a matter of personal preference.
If it is more than 1 year it has to be taken out of the equation anything with plastic, there is always some transpiration (look at a plastic water bottle how it collapse within a couple of years).
For long term storage two materials which are air tight are left: a. glass (mason jar), b. metal (mylar). Additionally it can be left original tin if you are ok to take the risk a very small number of tins could lose the seal (which can be avoided sealing them with aluminum tape) or rusting in the inside (I would be ok to take the risk as I consider it negligible).
If space is not an issue mason jar is proved to be very effective, but it takes place (and weight) and if this is an issue mylar bag is a very viable option.
Anything else (which means essentially compromising with plastic) I see as a shortcoming and not worthwhile to pursue for long term storage.
But finally is your time frame and your place which dictate the choice so only you can make the right decision.
Jars and mylar bags are only acceptable solution! Except when they aren't:
You'll find similar threads and comments re: OTC tubs.
I'm curious to see how the plastic containers you got work out. I personally would reuse a glass jar with a simple screw on lid before I'd use plastic, but if you are smoking it within a few months, I don't think it would matter much.
Maybe there's market for used Carter Hall tubs. Then we can discuss the dangers of tub ghosting.
Should I Jar The Tub :: Pipe Tobacco Discussion
I bought a tub of PA I smoke 4 or more bowls a day should I Jar or will it stay fresh enuff
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You'll find similar threads and comments re: OTC tubs.
I'm curious to see how the plastic containers you got work out. I personally would reuse a glass jar with a simple screw on lid before I'd use plastic, but if you are smoking it within a few months, I don't think it would matter much.
Maybe there's market for used Carter Hall tubs. Then we can discuss the dangers of tub ghosting.
I suggest the tin gets vacuum sealed, then into a mylar bag and then into a mason jar.
Some laser stuff after that.
Some laser stuff after that.
Glass is the way to go, mylar makes guys want to wear high heels and then buy matching hand bags,
I move too often to continue to move the number of jars I have. 4 huge plastic containers plus under the bed, on shelves.... I just bought mylar rolls for sealing up the blends I have set aside for long storage as well as bulk blends for convenience...Virginia's, VaPers, etc. It will reduce the weight by a large amount and the Virginia's will continue to age. If you decide to go with Mylar bags, be sure to order the textured rolls so that they will work with your vacuum sealer.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.....[/Seinfeld]
Why did the princess refuse to have a colostomy?
Because she couldn't find shoes to match the bag.
jp, lol.
I would never let mylar touch my bulk tobacco. No one has a clue to whether it adds some kind of nasty flavor 10 years down the road, or maybe it only takes 5 years. I wouldn't let my bulks touch plastic bags that are heat sealed. What if in 8 years you find moldy tobacco? Does anyone really know if it promotes mold spores?
I think anyone who uses it is nuts but that is just my opinion.
I will keep my tobacco safe in their tins and in glass jars and a few large jars that have silicone gaskets which never deteriorate . The gaskets are the only weak spot with glass jars.
I would never let mylar touch my bulk tobacco. No one has a clue to whether it adds some kind of nasty flavor 10 years down the road, or maybe it only takes 5 years. I wouldn't let my bulks touch plastic bags that are heat sealed. What if in 8 years you find moldy tobacco? Does anyone really know if it promotes mold spores?
I think anyone who uses it is nuts but that is just my opinion.
I will keep my tobacco safe in their tins and in glass jars and a few large jars that have silicone gaskets which never deteriorate . The gaskets are the only weak spot with glass jars.
I was speaking with mom about this, and she mentioned something that may be useful to some.
I use a canning kit for veggies from the garden that you can get very cheap at places like Rural King, TSC, ACE, ect...it includes several items.
I use the funnel which is great.
However if you were to want and cellar a tobacco for a good while, one you had no intention of opening for years let's say...one thing you can do is an extra step with the rubber gasket lids.
If you know how to can you can skip tall this...
Anyway, when you can, you take the lid that has the rubber gasket and you put them in boing water....then with your jars sterilized and your product in a heated jar you use that magnet to get a lid from the to water then put that lid on and screw down the outer ring then submerge and boil so the the lids will pressure seal, you will hear them "pop" sometimes.
So, that second little thing from the bottom, that looks like a stick with a round end is actually a plastic handle with a magnet on one end....so you can get one of the heated lids out of the hot water and place it on the jar without boiling your fingers or getting your hands on them rendering them unsterile.
For tobacco, you could put your product in a sanitized and cooled jar, and go ahead and prepare the lids as I described...then when you place the outer ring of the lid on the jar really tighten the sucker down.
This will not produce a perfect vacuum seal but it will be pretty much guaranteed not to let any air in it till you break the seal in the future.
That heated rubber will become much more malleable and compress and seal the jar.
Just a little tip...
HTH,
M
I use a canning kit for veggies from the garden that you can get very cheap at places like Rural King, TSC, ACE, ect...it includes several items.
I use the funnel which is great.
However if you were to want and cellar a tobacco for a good while, one you had no intention of opening for years let's say...one thing you can do is an extra step with the rubber gasket lids.
If you know how to can you can skip tall this...
Anyway, when you can, you take the lid that has the rubber gasket and you put them in boing water....then with your jars sterilized and your product in a heated jar you use that magnet to get a lid from the to water then put that lid on and screw down the outer ring then submerge and boil so the the lids will pressure seal, you will hear them "pop" sometimes.
So, that second little thing from the bottom, that looks like a stick with a round end is actually a plastic handle with a magnet on one end....so you can get one of the heated lids out of the hot water and place it on the jar without boiling your fingers or getting your hands on them rendering them unsterile.
For tobacco, you could put your product in a sanitized and cooled jar, and go ahead and prepare the lids as I described...then when you place the outer ring of the lid on the jar really tighten the sucker down.
This will not produce a perfect vacuum seal but it will be pretty much guaranteed not to let any air in it till you break the seal in the future.
That heated rubber will become much more malleable and compress and seal the jar.
Just a little tip...
HTH,
M
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