Dear Gawith & Hoggarth

[telescopes]

Hoarders whose goal is to create and take advantage of a secondary market that supersedes the primary market are not capitalist, but rather those who corrupt capitalism. I know there will be many on this forum who disagree with this but a free market works on creating efficiencies. If one throws a monkey wrench into this and turns up the dial to make the market less efficient , then you no longer have a free market, but rather a manipulated market whose goal is create artificial shortages and maximize profits by self- selecting consumers based on purchasing power.

 

[sablebrush52]

Hoarders whose goal is to create and take advantage of a secondary market that supersedes the primary market are not capitalist, but rather those who corrupt capitalism. I know there will be many on this forum who disagree with this but a free market works on creating efficiencies. If one throws a monkey wrench into this and turns up the dial to make the market less efficient , then you no longer have a free market, but rather a manipulated market whose goal is create artificial shortages and maximize profits by self- selecting consumers based on purchasing power.

Totally agree. But the reality of any market system is very complex and there are always various forces at work trying to shape and reshape it to their advantage. The "Free" market is a lovely myth. The open market is not, but that too is under constant pressure.

All of this falls neatly under my theory of everything human: People are loath to give up an unearned advantage.

In the case of tobaccos there are various keepers at the gate, those retailers and distributors of the objects of a hoarder's wet dreams, and they are uninterested in adding any meaningful barriers to hoarding.

 

[anotherbob]

I regret not finding the “other” thread until I read this one. I thought the answers provided by G&H were magnificent. In this day and age of “woke” apologizing and saying “I am sorry” for literally everything it was a pleasure to read responses that stated the truth of the facts and basically said “get lost” if you are upset that I won’t bend over.

As I get older, it means something to me that a man or a woman in this case is willing to defend legacy over the all mighty dollar and honor over catering to those who value social media over history. @gawithhoggarth , I raise my pipe to you and say, “Cheers”.

it's all about position. They know they can lose a customer or two and not worry about it. And it also gives me respect for them. Why because so many companies are worried about losing one or two dollars that they're unwilling to take risks. Like how many times I've seen a company pussy foot around because someone might try and sue them. Not they'd have a case and it even make it to court. Every freaking doctor I know loses sleep over malpractice suits, when to even get one past the initial filing has a ridiculously high burden of proof. You practically in PA have to already prove that the doctor legally and clearly was maliciously neglectful to get the case into court. Yet they're all terrified of it. Nice to see a company that doesn't think it's worth making another pound or buck at any cost or sacrifice.

 

[anotherbob]

Don't forget to thank those online store for enabling hoarders by refusing to place MEANINGFUL limits on purchases of limited product.
Amazing how many codgers with 400 lbs of tobacco rotting aging away are so addlepated that they think they need more.

TAD can certainly seem to be an addiction all on it's own. Hearing about certain cellars reminds me of ladies I've known that constantly buy another pair of cute shoes that will rot away in the back of a closet and never touch foot.

 

[anotherbob]

Hoarders whose goal is to create and take advantage of a secondary market that supersedes the primary market are not capitalist, but rather those who corrupt capitalism. I know there will be many on this forum who disagree with this but a free market works on creating efficiencies. If one throws a monkey wrench into this and turns up the dial to make the market less efficient , then you no longer have a free market, but rather a manipulated market whose goal is create artificial shortages and maximize profits by self- selecting consumers based on purchasing power.

some people can't see shades of grey. I watched an old movie that was from 1941 the bad guys where greedy scorched earth capitalists (I need more and who cares how drastically if effects everyone else, including the well being of the whole country) and the good guy was a rich banker. Of course one of the reviews complained about it being communist propaganda. I love that communist philosophy of getting rich by not cheating people and stealing. Oh wait that sounds wrong some how....

 

[gamzultovah]

some people can't see shades of grey. I watched an old movie that was from 1941 the bad guys where greedy scorched earth capitalists (I need more and who cares how drastically if effects everyone else, including the well being of the whole country) and the good guy was a rich banker. Of course one of the reviews complained about it being communist propaganda. I love that communist philosophy of getting rich by not cheating people and stealing. Oh wait that sounds wrong some how....

100 million murdered souls bears this out… IBTL.

 

[anotherbob]

100 million murdered souls bears this out… IBTL.

I assume you're talking about the purges. All I am going to say is I don't understand what confuses people about the horseshoe theory. Which is basically the question of why the far whatever and the far otherwhatever politically are pretty much indistinguishable from each other in their horribleness. I say they're both inflexible, more concerned with ideological theory then practical real world spiritual applications of their philosophy and most damningly they're the type of people who know exactly what the whole world needs to be doing without the need to actually look at what their individual situations and needs are right down here living life on earth.
Still not sure how the purges relate to my post. What precise detail inspired the mention. But I am going to say something I've noticed. When they put a description in a countries name it's almost always a lie. Example the Democratic peoples republic of north Korea only has one honest description in it's name which the geographic one.

 

[gamzultovah]

All theory can only be proven by application. Communism, when applied, always ends the same. By the way, Communism is a political ideology and should not be brought up on this forum. This forum does not allow political discourse. PSA.

 

[anotherbob]

All theory can only be proven by application. Communism, when applied, always ends the same. By the way, Communism is a political ideology and should not be brought up on this forum. This forum does not allow political discourse. PSA.

I think context makes a difference. I will say not many people wish to live in certain places and not just cause of how cold it can get. Oh what do I mean by context if it's illustrates a point that isn't explicitly political mentioning things might get a pass (might). And the point that people can jump to conclusions is a universal issue with people.

 

[gamzultovah]

I think context makes a difference. I will say not many people wish to live in certain places and not just cause of how cold it can get. Oh what do I mean by context if it's illustrates a point that isn't explicitly political mentioning things might get a pass (might). And the point that people can jump to conclusions is a universal issue with people.

There is a term for it and it’s called “Red Herring” (and I love red herring, especially in my threads), but fair enough.

 

[brian64]

I always can't help but notice how when communists murder millions of people it always seems to be referred to as a "purge", rather than a much more accurate term such as atrocity, genocide, mass murder, holocaust, etc.

Purging makes it sound so much less psychotic and criminal ... makes it sound therapeutic.

 

[gamzultovah]

I always can't help but notice how when communists murder millions of people it always seems to be referred to as a "purge", rather than a much more accurate term such as atrocity, genocide, mass murder, holocaust, etc.

Purging makes it sound so much less psychotic and criminal ... makes it sound therapeutic.

People who can somehow Defend Communism or talk it up, seem to have this peculiar cognitive dissonance.

 

[telescopes]

To be clear, NO ONE has defended communism on this thread. Why would there be a suggestion that someone has. My point is that subverting a free market by inducing inefficiencies designed to thwart consumers from enter acting directly with the sellers is not free market capitalism. Free market capitalism actually does require some rules to make the market run efficiently. One can disagree with this notion all day long. Our country has gone to war over less market meddling than esoterica and G&H. C&H comes to mind. We got an extra state with that one.

 

[OverMountain]

Don't forget to thank those online store for enabling hoarders by refusing to place MEANINGFUL limits on purchases of limited product.
Amazing how many codgers with 400 lbs of tobacco rotting aging away are so addlepated that they think they need more.

Agree! Casting the net wider (i.e. hoarding limits) to attract or retain more customer expands the base of the industry and their subsidiary suppliers and vendors.

The lack of vendor transparency/consumer information about expected arrivals leads to hoarding behavior.

Why can’t suppliers provide vendors better info about what’s shipping, and vendors provide consumers better info about market availability/ expectations.

 

[coys]

Hoarders whose goal is to create and take advantage of a secondary market that supersedes the primary market are not capitalist, but rather those who corrupt capitalism. I know there will be many on this forum who disagree with this but a free market works on creating efficiencies. If one throws a monkey wrench into this and turns up the dial to make the market less efficient , then you no longer have a free market, but rather a manipulated market whose goal is create artificial shortages and maximize profits by self- selecting consumers based on purchasing power.

Capitalism has given us nearly all the blessings of comfortable modern life that we enjoy today. It raised the great buildings of our cities, created the jobs we work, invented most of the things we touch and use and buy in a day. Prosperity is priceless. It raises everyone's standard of living just as high tide raises all boats. Then we have lovely things like boutique pipe tobaccos to choose from and argue about.

But it's not as if there are no inefficiencies, and hoarders marking things up for resale are one. They simply add profit for themselves without adding any value, creating a scarcity and then marking things up due to scarcity. That's basically a racket, it's not capitalism. No capital involved.

The shame is that, in my opinion, that profit belongs with our friends at Gawith Hoggarth. There's the money that they need to expand production and facilities. There's the millions they would need to buy equipment and give pay raises to the people working there. The hoarders are pocketing it. If only the end customer who's buying from the hoarders could be reached by GH first. We'd be in a lot better state.

 

[gamzultovah]

Capitalism has given us nearly all the blessings of comfortable modern life that we enjoy today.

A 5000 year leap in human existence.

 

[sablebrush52]

From my point of view, Capitalism doesn't equate with equality, but with opportunity. I've made money over the years by supplying capital to build houses, taking an equity position and making a profit when the project sells for a profit. But I'm also taking on risk, as happened with this last property that ran afoul of the pandemic, supply shortages and then a "mansion" tax for Los Angeles, that forced us to unload for what we could get before it went into effect. We got our money out, and a little more, but nothing like the other properties. It's all part of the game. Win some, lose some.

 

[telescopes]

I agree that a latent result of creating a secondary market for pipe tobacco is that the profits created by this market are separated from and do not benefit the producer of the product. The producer owns the risk, time, and investment to create the product and has found a price point that allows them to sell their product, maximize profits, and fill a niche. The balance of price point and amount of product offered is determined by the market.

Some posters have suggested that increasing production is a necessity that G&H ethically should be pursuing and that doing this would nix the secondary market, driving more profits to G&H. This may be true, except it isn’t practical. G’&H is a niche product that is dependent on traditional older equipment and a process that uses manual labor. Changing these two variables creates a “different“ product. In a world where tobacco smoking is under attack, why would a company want to fix and invest in what isn’t broke?

I am not sure why this seems difficult for some posters to understand?

This forum wasn’t intended to be a Stanford Binet test, and yet some times it comes across that way.

 

[sablebrush52]

I am not sure why this seems difficult for some posters to understand?

It's not all that difficult to understand. Just look at all of the liars, grifters, mentally ill sociopaths, crooks, perverts, and other myriad bozos that people have fanatically supported and even died for. What the bozos all have in common is that they told people what they wanted to hear. Not any sort of truth, just what "their" people wanted to hear. A lot of people will only hear what they want to hear.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

I suppose I qualify as a hoarder, at least of GH and SG blends, but I look at the many Mylar bags I have on hand purchased in bulk when GH was in the 40-50 dollar range, compare the prices now, and feel like I have won the lottery.

The distribution in the US of these blends was frankly a crap sickle before Laudisi took over. It was strictly an afterthought for Phillips and King/Kretek. They had dropped so many pioe related products, such as the Comoy Bulks and the Erik Stokebye line, that a reasonable person who knew what the industry situation was and who loved the blends had every reason to fear each shipment would be the last.

Sometimes FOMO is not unreasonable. There really isn't as much incentive for me to add more to my stash since Laudisi is bringing the stuff in by regular 20 ft container loads, but in the past there most certainly was.

But a word of warning. I have no clue as to how long or how severe the current inflation trend will be. But for imported tobacco, a $ increase at the manufacturer level gets marked up by the distributor, then again by the retailer. If you can find old mail order catalogs from o7tfits like Iwan Ries and Smokers Haven from, say, 1970 and 1980, the cost increase is dramatic. Pipe tobacco is a better inflation hedge than gold.