Confessions of a (former) Ky Dark Fired Farmer

[brass]

I could be mistaken but I believe that Kentucky Dark Fired uses a type of burley:
Russ Oullette refer to Pipes&Cigar's blending tobacco as Dark Fired Kentucky Burley
From his blog:

Is dark-fired Kentucky a Burley? It depends on who you talk to. Most people say yes as the raw leaf is certainly more like Burley than any other type of leaf. But the growers refer to it as Kentucky and never call it Burley. In any case, it’s a darker leaf, low in sugar, high in oils and a bold spiciness, even before the fire-curing. Instead of hanging the tobacco is a barn and allowing the air movement to cure the leaf, the barn has a smoldering fire using aromatic woods, in the US, hickory is often used. One common misconception is that, because of its name, it’s only grown and processed in America. Much of the dark-fired, especially in the European market comes from Africa, and since the native woods there are different, the resulting flavor and aroma is different as well.

I've been under the impression that Dark Fired Kentucky is a unique, specially processed, dark burley.
On a side note, many fine tobaccos do come from Africa. As an example, many cigar smokers prize Cameroon wrappers.

 

[pitchfork]

Is "dark tobacco" a kind of burley? We've had this conversation before. Yeah, it really depends on who you ask, but it's not the same variety that usually gets called "burley." It's darker: http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/dark-fired-kentucky-discussion#post-836998
Dark tobacco (the crop) can be air cured or fire cured: http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/dark-fired-kentucky-discussion#post-837084
tinsel, did your family always fire cure the dark tobacco you grew?

 

[jitterbugdude]

Is "dark tobacco" a kind of burley? We've had this conversation before. Yeah, it really depends on who you ask

Yes indeed, unknowledgeable people will say it is a Burley. Knowledgeable people will say it is not. I choose to listen to knowledeable people like the USDA and all the Tobacco Extension Services located in tobacco country.

It is not a Burley.

 

[brass]

I'm often surprised at how difficult it is to get information on the Internet from authoritative sources. I did find the following:
From an official USDA Kentucky State Summary of Tobacco Statistics document.

KENTUCKY FARMERS GROW THREE “TYPES” OF TOBACCO; BURLEY, DARK FIRE-CURED AND DARK AIR-CURED

This implies that KDF is not the same as burley but doesn't exclude the possibility that is not a type of burley. So, I put in a call to the Kentucky State Department of Agriculture to pose the question. I was told the correct expert was out to lunch and would not be back until 1pm.
I'll let you know what she says.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Hah! Thanks. Can you also ask if they have nicotine content records? Be interesting to learn the range for each type.

 

[pitchfork]

I was told the correct expert was out to lunch and would not be back until 1pm.
I'll let you know what she says.

Ha! (But what if the internet says she's wrong?)

 

[jitterbugdude]

I'm often surprised at how difficult it is to get information on the Internet from authoritative sources.

Authoritative sources have already spoken, as I posted above. Dark Fired is a type of tobacco. It is not a Burley. If it was a Burley the USDA would have classified it as such. Specifically, The USDA classifies it as a Type 35 and Type 36 tobacco. "Types" were introduced years ago by the USDA more or less for ease of comminucation. It typically defines the type AND location of the tobacco. For instance, Perique is a Type 72, identifying it as a Red Burley, grown on LA.

 

[brass]

Thanks for the specific reference, jitterbug. Now we can do some verification.
According to Code of Federal Regulations (CFR)
CFR § 30.5 Class.

One of the major divisions of leaf tobacco based on the distinct characteristics of the tobacco caused by differences in varieties, soil and climatic conditions, and the methods of cultivation, harvesting, and curing
§ 30.6 Type.

A subdivision of a class of leaf tobacco, having certain common characteristics which permit of its being divided into a number of related grades. Any tobacco that has the same characteristics and corresponding qualities, colors, and lengths, shall be treated as one type, regardless of any factors of historical or geographical nature which cannot be determined by an examination of the tobacco.
§ 30.12 Fire-cure.

To cure tobacco under artificial atmospheric conditions by the use of open fires, the smoke and fumes of which are allowed to come in contact with the tobacco.
Here the CFR defines Type 35 and 36
(e) Type 35. That type of air-cured tobacco commonly known as One Sucker Air-cured, Kentucky-Tennessee-Indiana One Sucker, or Dark Air-cured One Sucker, including the upper Cumberland District One Sucker, and produced principally in northern Tennessee, south central Kentucky, and southern Indiana.
(f) Type 36. That type of air-cured tobacco commonly known as Green River, Green River Air-cured, or Dark Air-cured of the Henderson and Owensboro Districts, and produced principally in the Green River section of Kentucky.
CFR 30.37 does defines fire-cured types
§ 30.37 Class 2; fire-cured types and groups.

(a) Type 21. That kind of fire-cured tobacco commonly known as Virginia Fire-cured, or Dark-fired, produced principally in the Piedmont and mountain sections of Virginia.

(b) Type 22. That type of fire-cured tobacco, known as Eastern District Fire-cured, produced principally in a section east of the Tennessee River in southern Kentucky and northern Tennessee.

(c) Type 23. That type of fire-cured tobacco, known as Western District Fire-cured or Dark-fired, produced principally in a section west of the Tennessee River in Kentucky and extending into Tennessee.



Still, the text doesn't preclude Dark Fired as being a KIND of burley.
But after checking the CFR for the definition of Burley, we find:
§ 29.3005 Burley, Type 31.

That type of air-cured tobacco, commonly known as Burley, produced principally in Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, North Carolina, Ohio, Indiana, West Virginia, and Missouri.
Finally, we have something definitive that would hold up in court. Burley, by legal definition, is air cured. Hence, Kentucky Dark Fired can't be a burley because it is fire cured, not air cured.



Of course, this is a legal definition but my understanding is the regulation was published by the USDA, who has some expertise in the area. I wonder if we have a botanist who would chime in?
jpmcwjr and others interested in knowing that the reference also classifies verious types by nicotine dry oven weight, if you would like to research further.
Source: Legal Information Institute, Cornell University Law School. (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/7/part-29)

 

[jpmcwjr]

Wow- thank you. Further study is alway complicated by facts!

 

[ocpsdan]

This is a really great thread. Stick around, tinsel.
Brian? Kevin? You reading this stuff? *ahemexcellentcandidatefortheradioshowahem* Very fascinating insight here.

 

[tinsel]

Welp,
Mr. Pease was kind enough to send me a personal message assuring me that he uses KDF from West Ky and northwest Tn. I will most definitely be ordering some of his blends for my personal enjoyment. Thanks to Mr. Pease for his warm welcome to the forum, and for supporting our local economy here in West Ky.
Additionally, I contacted Pipes and Cigars via email and asked them about production origins of their "Kentucky Dark Fired Blending Tobacco" which is available in bulk. While they did not specifically say in which state it is grown, they told me that it is listed as a product of the USA ... which makes it a safe bet that it is also from right here in the west Ky/northwest Tn area.
I think the previous posters have just about laid out all the facts about whether or not dark fired is a type of burley. It is NOT. It is a unique type of tobacco. Within that type, there are multiple strains with slightly different properties, but all are still "dark fired" tobacco.
Previously I had mentioned that I was under the impression that dark fired is a "cousin" of burley. I say this because of the physical similarities between the two plants. Having seen them grown side-by-side in the same field, I can say that the physical appearance of the two plants is nearly identical other than the color. Admittedly, there are several strains of "burley" and I'm not certain exactly which strain we grew, but if not for the color difference you wouldn't have been able to tell the difference just by looking. Alternatively, virginias and orientals have a much different visual appearance (judging by google image searches).
The height, fullness, leaf size and shape were practically identical, as the image pitchfork posted a link to illustrates. Of course, the feel of the leaves and smell of the plant were much, much different, but the eyes could only make out the color difference. I also recall the dark fired SEEMING heavier, but it's been a long time since I handled sticks of tobacco and that may have just been in my head.

tinsel, did your family always fire cure the dark tobacco you grew?

Yes, always. I believe there is another type of tobacco, dark air-cured, that is not fired and has a similar appearance to dark fired but is NOT the same actual plant.
On some occasions, we would leave the dark fired tobacco on the wagons for a few days, or hang it in the barn but wait a few days before lighting fires. I believe this was to give it time to "wilt" before firing. The practice of curing the tobacco was/is really an art form. It has been passed down through the generations. I had just begun learning these things when we left the business, and my memory no longer possesses any of that information, sadly. For me, I just did as I was told by my elders and didn't question why we did the things we did.
I remember that the weather, humidity, and temperature had a lot to do with the timing of everything. I often heard things like "If it doesn't rain we will take it down after this fire", and "if the warm air moves in as expected, we will only leave it on the wagon for a day", etc.
Speaking of the weather, here's another good story:
On one occasion when I was about 12 years old an unexpected cold front moved in early in the year, during the time when we were taking tobacco out of the barn and getting ready to strip it. It was a fiercely cold, temperatures in the low teens and a wind chill well below 0. We had several acres of tobacco on the wagons which had already been fired. It was a frantic rush to get it off the wagons, stripped and boxed. I didn't go to school. My dad, uncle and grandfather didn't go to work. Extended family was called in, even ones who hadn't touched a tobacco plant in decades. It was chaos. Grandad was rushing outside every few minutes and using a water hose to re-douse the tobacco that was on the wagons, keeping it from being frostbitten. He would pull back the tarps which covered it, mist it, and then put the tarps back. The "stack" inside the stripping barn stayed full at all times, so that as much tobacco as possible was always indoors with us and the kerosene heaters.
My job was to sit in my chair and strip and tie, strip and tie. No one stopped. My grandmother was constantly going back and forth between the house and stripping barn carrying coffee (and hot chocolate for me). She brought us hot stew for lunch and we gobbled it down barely stopping work at all. If memory serves correctly, I think we only lost half a wagon load of the tobacco to frostbite.

Cumberland is another one (ribbon cut) that has Kentucky in it. The formula for Cumberland has changed in recent years -- initially, it contained some really old dark fired leaf that had been found in a warehouse somewhere (Kentucky, maybe). Now, it uses more recently produced dark fired.

Wow. I wonder if it's possible to find any of the old tins.

 

[pitchfork]

Tinsel,
Thanks so much for such an interesting and informative thread. It makes me want to "support the Kentucky economy" all the more - ha ha.
You can find older tins of Cumberland every once in a while. I'm not sure when they ran out of the old stuff and started using the newer leaf, but it came out in 2002 or so and I'm pretty sure the old stuff lasted for 5 or 6 years, maybe longer. I bet your new pal Greg can give you at least a ballpark date.

 

[brass]

I love the deep, dark flavor of dark fired tobaccos, e.g. GL Pease JackNife Plug or Mac Barren Old Dark Fired. They also add the thick, creamy texture you get from a good cigar.

 

[mcitinner1]

Tinsel I see P&C has Peter Stokkebye's Dark Fired Kentucky for blending. Doesn't say where it's from.

 

[blownsmoke]

Welcome to the forum tinsel and thanks for your excellent post. I am a fellow Kentuckian too from Henderson. I'm not a farmer but my dad grew up on one in Christian Co.. I heard a lot of stories from him and my grandmother how hard tobacco farming was. Especially the stripping part that my grandmother helped with. A long time ago Henderson had about if not the largest tobbaco market in the country.

 

[tinsel]

Welcome to the forum tinsel and thanks for your excellent post. I am a fellow Kentuckian too from Henderson. I'm not a farmer but my dad grew up on one in Christian Co.. I heard a lot of stories from him and my grandmother how hard tobacco farming was. Especially the stripping part that my grandmother helped with. A long time ago Henderson had about if not the largest tobbaco market in the country.

Haven't been up Henderson way in a good while. Used to pass through there a lot when I made regular trips up to Evansville Indiana, but haven't done that in a few years. I always liked Henderson. Nice little Kentucky small town. Reminds me a lot of Murray.
The stories you heard about how tough tobacco work is are all true . It's a tough job, but someones gotta do it.
On another note, I received a tin of JackKnife Plug yesterday from P&C. I'm currently on my 3rd bowl of it, and I am absolutely in LOVE. Although I'm still a pipe newbie and haven't tried a whole lot of blends, this one is absolutely my favorite so far. It's hard to imagine how pipe tobacco could possible get better than this.
I don't think I'll post an actual review of the tobacco, since my palate is unrefined and my vocabulary for describing tobaccos is still in its infancy. Not to mention it would be hard to say anything that the existing, gleaning reviews haven't already said.
However, I can tell you for sure: If you ever wanted to know what the inside of a stripping shed on a west Ky dark fired farm smells like when the cured tobacco is all stacked up and being stripped and tied, you need only to pop a tin of this stuff. THIS is what it smells like.

 

[mcitinner1]

I've got a jar holding a year old JKP that's been through a food processor, and it has a great smell, but I think a jar of PSLTF smells even better, and a jar of SG Commonwealth smells even better than that. :mrgreen:

 

[andystewart]

Tinsel - welcome to the forums and thank you for a fascinating thread.
Being English, I've never seen tobacco fields or even many hands of tobacco (although the Dunhill store in Mayfair, London has stacks of whole leaf KDF in the Master Blender's Room, so I know what that looks like!). I love KDF and your posts and videos have given me a whole fresh insight into a totally new side of my hobby; I'm very grateful.
Please keep coming back!
Andy

 

[tinsel]

I've got a jar holding a year old JKP that's been through a food processor, and it has a great smell, but I think a jar of PSLTF smells even better, and a jar of SG Commonwealth smells even better than that.

PSLTF?

 

[derfargin]

Peter Stokkebye's - Luxury Twist Flake.
And for the record, it smells nothing like dark fired.