Confessions of a (former) Ky Dark Fired Farmer
- Thread starter tinsel
- Start date
SmokingPipes.com Updates
Watch for Updates Twice a Week
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
Site Sponsors
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
- Status
Tinsel this is one of the most interesting threads ever on this forum. I like my KDF very much too. :clap:
:
Wow, didn't expect such a strong response to my post :D
Thank you all for your warm welcomes and compliments
We never had any such contract that I know of. We planted our crop, usually with the help of a loan from the bank to cover the expenses of the years crop, and then did our best to sell it when it was ready.
Ideally, it would be sold "out of the barn". This meant that a buyer would literally come to the field and inspect the crop as it was hanging in the barn, during the firing process. If he liked what he saw, a price would be negotiated and a deal was struck. I can't be sure, but I believe these were very often "handshake deals" where no terms were actually put to paper. Who these buyers were, and who they represented, I also do not know. They always spoke with my grandfather.
During these negotiations, the only involvement I ever had was occasionally being asked to climb up and retrieve a stick of tobacco from higher in the barn, presumably so the buyer could verify the consistency of the crop and make sure we didn't just hang our best plants towards the bottom. I never claimed to be smart, but I was bright enough to know that I needed to pick out a stick of good-looking plants, and not the one that was in easiest reach of the lightest to carry (would not have put me on grand-dad's good side that day).
The buyers were and odd collection of guys. Some of them looked as if they had no business in a tobacco field. They drove shiny new trucks, wore nice clothes, and came to the barn with nice shoes on. Other buyers looked more like farmers and would be wearing work boots, overalls or blue jeans, etc.
Buyers had all sorts of ways of inspecting the tobacco. They would touch the leaves wad them up, crumble them, sniff them. Some guys would even twist one up and chew on it while he made his inspections. Presumably, this is how they checked for taste and nicotine? I remember that buyers came in a lot of shapes, sizes, and types.
Some buyers would buy a whole crop, or an acre, or only the "firsts", or "seconds", or only the "lugs" (leaves are sorted by quality into firsts, seconds, and lugs a.k.a. "trash leaves").
Whatever didn't sell "out of the barn" had to be taken to the tobacco sales. Basically, we would load up all our tobacco that was ready to sell, sorted, tied and boxed (which really means "bailed" and take it to a the sales where many, many buyers were buying up tobacco by the truckload. I remember thinking that it was like a great big tobacco flea market. We would open up a bail and lay out some of the tobacco so it could be inspected. I remember Grandad talking to the buyers and telling them how much we had with us that day, how many more acres were still in the barn, and so forth.
Towards the end of the sales (which sometimes went on for weeks), if you still had tobacco unsold, there would be auctions. If you wound up with tobacco in the auction, it was a bad day. Basically, your chances of getting a decent price were gone by this point, and you were just hoping to get back to even and not take a loss. Selling it out of the barn was your best ticket to a profitable crop.
I don't know much about the real "business" because my family got out of it before I was old enough to start learning that stuff. I was still a "farmhand" at that time. But, these are the things I remember seeing/hearing while the "business" was being discussed.
Now, we also grew a little burley from time to time. Not much, but maybe 2 acres one year, 4 acres another year.
What I can tell you about the burley is that it was much less hassle to deal with. First off, it didn't have to be fired, which cut a HUGE step out of the process (and a dangerous one at that). It also seemed to be more resilient than the dark fired, needed less attention, and wasn't as much of a pain to work with.
Why we planted these few acres of burley, I don't know. Looking back on it now, I suspect maybe it was to fill up our last few available acres with a cheaper plant when we didn't have enough money to plant it all with dark fired. Maybe there was another reason, I'm not sure honestly.
But what I do know is that Grandad was MUCH less finicky about the way we handled the burley. Especially when it came time to strip, tie and box it.
Whenever you stripped and tied a "hand" of dark fired, the stems of all the leaves in the hand were to be completely EVEN, with not a single one sticking out further than the others. Also, you had to use a PERFECT leaf as the "tie leaf". Meaning one with no holes or tears. The tie leaf had to be folded precisely down the center stem, "upward" side out. Then, you wrapped the tie leaf around your "hand" of tobacco with the center stem at the top of the hand, perfectly even with the tips of the stems. Half the tie leaf was wrapped, and then the other half was pulled down and through the center of the rest of the hand. If your work was shoddy or poorly done, you got a good butt-chewin, and the hand had to be re-tied.
When it came to stripping and tying the burley, Grandad was a lot less picky about it. It was basically "just tie it off and get it bailed". I didn't understand why back then, but now I assume it was because burley buyers didn't care as much about how it looked (most likely gonna get chopped up and put in cigarettes anyways).
Another funny thing to mention is that we were always told as young 'uns that "the burley is for smoking, the dark fired is for chew and dip".
At the time, it was confusing to me because smoking was so much more prevalent that dip or chew. I thought "wouldn't it make more sense to grow 20 acres of burley and 2 acres of dark fired?" I didn't know that burley was grown all over the world, and west ky had the market cornered on dark fired back then...
We were also told, "you can't smoke dark fired, it'll just make you sick". I remember my dad and uncle telling about when they were teenagers and they snuck away from the barn with some leaves and rolled their own cigarettes, only to become very sick after trying to smoke them.
When I started pipe smoking and found out that some pipe blends have dark fired in them, I was amazed. I didn't think it was used for smoking products. Now I'm anxious to try it for myself, but as I said before I haven't been able to get any yet. I'm not sure if you could smoke it completely straight right outta the barn, or if it needs to age a while and be blended down to make it tolerable. But I DO remember getting a slight nicotine sickness sometimes after a long day of stripping and tying the leaves bare-handed, and of course the stains on my hands ...
I was about 8 years old and was riding the setter one evening after school. Our tobacco setter was a 4 seater, that set 2 rows at a time. Us young-uns had to ride on the inside 2 seats, because an adult was needed on the outer 2 seats, so that they could hop off at the end of the rows and retrieve more plant beds from the racks, which were too high for us kids to reach.
Grandad was driving the tractor, my dad and Mr. Wilson, and older farmer who was lifelong friends with my Grandad, were riding on the 2 outside seats. Myself and Mr. Wilson's grandson Thomas, who was a year older than me were on the inside 2 seats.
And the end of each row, Dad and Mr. Wilson would hop off and grab plant beds if needed, and if not they stayed with us on the setter. Grandad would engage the hydraulics on the tractor and the setter would be lifted about 2 foot off the ground while the tractor made the turn to start another row. After the turn was made, the setter was gently lowered back down and the next row was started.
We were only about 6 rows away from being done for the night and we reached the end of the field. The setter was raised up with all 4 of us still on it (we didn't need any more plants just yet) and we started making the turn. halfway through the turn, a hydraulic hose on the tractor blew out and the setter came falling back down to earth, full-force. It was a very jarring experience. Immediately after hitting the ground, something wet started hitting me on the head. A stream of hydraulic oil was coming from the hose in a large arc and landing directly on ME. I turned to try and leave the setter, but Mr. Wilson, who was sitting on my side, was in quite a bit of pain from the landing (bad back) and having trouble getting up. I was stuck in my seat, hydraulic oil landing on my head.
By the time I managed to crawl over the center of the setter and exit the other side, the tractor had been shut off and the pressure was all gone from the hose, so the shower had stopped.
It took me a week to wash all the hydraulic oil out of my hair ...
Thank you all for your warm welcomes and compliments
To the best of my knowledge, it is a close cousin to burley. As far as the purchasers asking for specific nicotine content, I do not recall the nicotine content of the plant ever being discussed or brought up during production. It may be something that gets talked about at the greenhouse, where most farmers buy the starter plants, but we never talked about it during growing or curing.
I know that some farmers have contracts with tobacco companies, and I have heard some stories similar to what you are saying, where the buyers later try to talk the price down for some meaningless reason. They seem to know that the farmers don't have the means to fight a contract dispute in court, and will likely settle for whatever they can get.
We never had any such contract that I know of. We planted our crop, usually with the help of a loan from the bank to cover the expenses of the years crop, and then did our best to sell it when it was ready.
Ideally, it would be sold "out of the barn". This meant that a buyer would literally come to the field and inspect the crop as it was hanging in the barn, during the firing process. If he liked what he saw, a price would be negotiated and a deal was struck. I can't be sure, but I believe these were very often "handshake deals" where no terms were actually put to paper. Who these buyers were, and who they represented, I also do not know. They always spoke with my grandfather.
During these negotiations, the only involvement I ever had was occasionally being asked to climb up and retrieve a stick of tobacco from higher in the barn, presumably so the buyer could verify the consistency of the crop and make sure we didn't just hang our best plants towards the bottom. I never claimed to be smart, but I was bright enough to know that I needed to pick out a stick of good-looking plants, and not the one that was in easiest reach of the lightest to carry (would not have put me on grand-dad's good side that day).
The buyers were and odd collection of guys. Some of them looked as if they had no business in a tobacco field. They drove shiny new trucks, wore nice clothes, and came to the barn with nice shoes on. Other buyers looked more like farmers and would be wearing work boots, overalls or blue jeans, etc.
Buyers had all sorts of ways of inspecting the tobacco. They would touch the leaves wad them up, crumble them, sniff them. Some guys would even twist one up and chew on it while he made his inspections. Presumably, this is how they checked for taste and nicotine? I remember that buyers came in a lot of shapes, sizes, and types.
Some buyers would buy a whole crop, or an acre, or only the "firsts", or "seconds", or only the "lugs" (leaves are sorted by quality into firsts, seconds, and lugs a.k.a. "trash leaves").
Whatever didn't sell "out of the barn" had to be taken to the tobacco sales. Basically, we would load up all our tobacco that was ready to sell, sorted, tied and boxed (which really means "bailed" and take it to a the sales where many, many buyers were buying up tobacco by the truckload. I remember thinking that it was like a great big tobacco flea market. We would open up a bail and lay out some of the tobacco so it could be inspected. I remember Grandad talking to the buyers and telling them how much we had with us that day, how many more acres were still in the barn, and so forth.
Towards the end of the sales (which sometimes went on for weeks), if you still had tobacco unsold, there would be auctions. If you wound up with tobacco in the auction, it was a bad day. Basically, your chances of getting a decent price were gone by this point, and you were just hoping to get back to even and not take a loss. Selling it out of the barn was your best ticket to a profitable crop.
I don't know much about the real "business" because my family got out of it before I was old enough to start learning that stuff. I was still a "farmhand" at that time. But, these are the things I remember seeing/hearing while the "business" was being discussed.
Now, we also grew a little burley from time to time. Not much, but maybe 2 acres one year, 4 acres another year.
What I can tell you about the burley is that it was much less hassle to deal with. First off, it didn't have to be fired, which cut a HUGE step out of the process (and a dangerous one at that). It also seemed to be more resilient than the dark fired, needed less attention, and wasn't as much of a pain to work with.
Why we planted these few acres of burley, I don't know. Looking back on it now, I suspect maybe it was to fill up our last few available acres with a cheaper plant when we didn't have enough money to plant it all with dark fired. Maybe there was another reason, I'm not sure honestly.
But what I do know is that Grandad was MUCH less finicky about the way we handled the burley. Especially when it came time to strip, tie and box it.
Whenever you stripped and tied a "hand" of dark fired, the stems of all the leaves in the hand were to be completely EVEN, with not a single one sticking out further than the others. Also, you had to use a PERFECT leaf as the "tie leaf". Meaning one with no holes or tears. The tie leaf had to be folded precisely down the center stem, "upward" side out. Then, you wrapped the tie leaf around your "hand" of tobacco with the center stem at the top of the hand, perfectly even with the tips of the stems. Half the tie leaf was wrapped, and then the other half was pulled down and through the center of the rest of the hand. If your work was shoddy or poorly done, you got a good butt-chewin, and the hand had to be re-tied.
When it came to stripping and tying the burley, Grandad was a lot less picky about it. It was basically "just tie it off and get it bailed". I didn't understand why back then, but now I assume it was because burley buyers didn't care as much about how it looked (most likely gonna get chopped up and put in cigarettes anyways).
Another funny thing to mention is that we were always told as young 'uns that "the burley is for smoking, the dark fired is for chew and dip".
At the time, it was confusing to me because smoking was so much more prevalent that dip or chew. I thought "wouldn't it make more sense to grow 20 acres of burley and 2 acres of dark fired?" I didn't know that burley was grown all over the world, and west ky had the market cornered on dark fired back then...
We were also told, "you can't smoke dark fired, it'll just make you sick". I remember my dad and uncle telling about when they were teenagers and they snuck away from the barn with some leaves and rolled their own cigarettes, only to become very sick after trying to smoke them.
When I started pipe smoking and found out that some pipe blends have dark fired in them, I was amazed. I didn't think it was used for smoking products. Now I'm anxious to try it for myself, but as I said before I haven't been able to get any yet. I'm not sure if you could smoke it completely straight right outta the barn, or if it needs to age a while and be blended down to make it tolerable. But I DO remember getting a slight nicotine sickness sometimes after a long day of stripping and tying the leaves bare-handed, and of course the stains on my hands ...
Here's a quick one that always gets a good laugh when I tell it.
I was about 8 years old and was riding the setter one evening after school. Our tobacco setter was a 4 seater, that set 2 rows at a time. Us young-uns had to ride on the inside 2 seats, because an adult was needed on the outer 2 seats, so that they could hop off at the end of the rows and retrieve more plant beds from the racks, which were too high for us kids to reach.
Grandad was driving the tractor, my dad and Mr. Wilson, and older farmer who was lifelong friends with my Grandad, were riding on the 2 outside seats. Myself and Mr. Wilson's grandson Thomas, who was a year older than me were on the inside 2 seats.
And the end of each row, Dad and Mr. Wilson would hop off and grab plant beds if needed, and if not they stayed with us on the setter. Grandad would engage the hydraulics on the tractor and the setter would be lifted about 2 foot off the ground while the tractor made the turn to start another row. After the turn was made, the setter was gently lowered back down and the next row was started.
We were only about 6 rows away from being done for the night and we reached the end of the field. The setter was raised up with all 4 of us still on it (we didn't need any more plants just yet) and we started making the turn. halfway through the turn, a hydraulic hose on the tractor blew out and the setter came falling back down to earth, full-force. It was a very jarring experience. Immediately after hitting the ground, something wet started hitting me on the head. A stream of hydraulic oil was coming from the hose in a large arc and landing directly on ME. I turned to try and leave the setter, but Mr. Wilson, who was sitting on my side, was in quite a bit of pain from the landing (bad back) and having trouble getting up. I was stuck in my seat, hydraulic oil landing on my head.
By the time I managed to crawl over the center of the setter and exit the other side, the tractor had been shut off and the pressure was all gone from the hose, so the shower had stopped.
It took me a week to wash all the hydraulic oil out of my hair ...
Thanks georged.
P&C says that the GH kendal kentucky is on backorder right now. I'll keep an eye on it.
Also, I noticed that it says it uses "dark fired leaf from 3 African countries". I wonder if it's really the same as what we grow here in the bluegrass
Here's an alternative source:
http://www.marscigars.com/gh-kendalkentucky.aspx
Also, where is African leaf mentioned on SP's site? Can't find it. (Some really good cigar leaf came out of Zimbabwe a decade ago, so I know the soil & etc. has promise. Didn't realize anyone was getting pipe tobacco from there, though.)
http://www.marscigars.com/gh-kendalkentucky.aspx
Also, where is African leaf mentioned on SP's site? Can't find it. (Some really good cigar leaf came out of Zimbabwe a decade ago, so I know the soil & etc. has promise. Didn't realize anyone was getting pipe tobacco from there, though.)
Here's the first line from Tobacco Reviews by one of the very top reviewers
"The dark fired Kentucky is the star."
He's reviewing the GL Pease Company's Jackknife Plug. Just Kentucky and Virginia tobaccos.
Love your anecdotes! The tobacco plant setting operation sounds very much like they set tomatoes in N. CA.
"The dark fired Kentucky is the star."
He's reviewing the GL Pease Company's Jackknife Plug. Just Kentucky and Virginia tobaccos.
Love your anecdotes! The tobacco plant setting operation sounds very much like they set tomatoes in N. CA.
Ah. P&C. I thought you were referring to SP.com.
Thanks. :D
Interesting for sure. I'm stoked that good stuff is still coming out of Zimbabwe. Don Lino's "Africa" series cigars were killer, and when they changed their source leaf to something else because of Zimbabwe's consistency issues they became mediocre. II thought the country was done.
Thanks. :D
Interesting for sure. I'm stoked that good stuff is still coming out of Zimbabwe. Don Lino's "Africa" series cigars were killer, and when they changed their source leaf to something else because of Zimbabwe's consistency issues they became mediocre. II thought the country was done.
Tinsel, since the P&C description says the DFK is from three African countries, how do we know if the Jack Knife isn't grown there too? Have you considered talking to people in your area about who buys their leaf and how it's used?
I was just thinking this before pulling the trigger on an order. I considered getting some kendal kentucky and some jackknife plug just to try them out, but then asked myself the same question about where the JKP DFK comes from.
I haven't heard Grandad talk about tobacco in a long time. I wonder if he even remembers where our old stuff wound up going. His health has really declined in the last 5-7 years, along with his memory. Maybe he can still give me some insight.
I'm an auto mechanic by trade, and I work on a lot of farm trucks for local farmers. I'm going to start making a habit of chatting with them about buyers when they are willing to do so. Like a lot of country folks, many farmers really don't like publicly discussing the details of their livelihood. But as long as I stay away from discussing dollar amounts and things like that, and explain that I am asking because I want to buy products that support local farmers, they may be more willing to open up about where their crops are going, specifically.
Unfortunately, I imagine that most boutique producers and blenders probably buy their stock from middle-men, or "brokers" or "purchasers" if you prefer those terms ...
Mac Baren's website, for example, simply states that they buy burleys (including "the famous Kentucky tobacco") from the USA, Mexico, and Malawi.
I couldn't find any information on the GL Pease website about where their KDF comes from.
If I can get any more info out of any of the local farmers, I will come share it with the group. I have nothing against African-grown tobaccos, as I am sure they are fantastic quality (or high end blenders wouldn't use them), but would prefer to buy products that support local farmers if possible.
You may not know that Greg Pease himself participates here. I hope he sees this/your thread and has a response. I will say again, you've started a very interesting thread subject, and I've really enjoyed it.
Derreck, welcome to the forums. Just watched all three parts of Farming in the Black Patch, so thank you for that! Another very good tobacco worth a try, and easy on the wallet, is Newminster No.403 Superior Round Slices.
http://www.smokingpipes.com/tobacco/by-maker/Newminster/bulk/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=102423
http://www.smokingpipes.com/tobacco/by-maker/Newminster/bulk/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=102423
Welcome, tinsel. Fantastic thread.
If you're looking for Kentucky dark fired, as opposed to African leaf, I'm almost 100% certain that Pease only uses American dark fired in his blends. Triple Play and Jack Knife (both plugs) are wonderful tobaccos. Cumberland is another one (ribbon cut) that has Kentucky in it. The formula for Cumberland has changed in recent years -- initially, it contained some really old dark fired leaf that had been found in a warehouse somewhere (Kentucky, maybe). Now, it uses more recently produced dark fired. But as far as I know, it's never had anything but Kentucky dark fired in it, not African.
If you're looking for Kentucky dark fired, as opposed to African leaf, I'm almost 100% certain that Pease only uses American dark fired in his blends. Triple Play and Jack Knife (both plugs) are wonderful tobaccos. Cumberland is another one (ribbon cut) that has Kentucky in it. The formula for Cumberland has changed in recent years -- initially, it contained some really old dark fired leaf that had been found in a warehouse somewhere (Kentucky, maybe). Now, it uses more recently produced dark fired. But as far as I know, it's never had anything but Kentucky dark fired in it, not African.
- Status