Cheap vs Expensive Pipes?
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- There is the quality of the stem: pre molded vulcanite (which will turn green very quickly) or acrylic (harder under the tooth) vs hand turned and shaped from a rod which guarantees much better quality in general.
- There is the fitting of the stem to the shank. No gaps should be perceptible between the shank and stem and the stem must be the same dimension as the shank. Hand made artisan pipes are extremely well constructed at that level.
- There is the aspect of the drilling of the bore hole: an adequate drilling has the bore hole end up flush on the bottom of the tobacco chamber and centered. Again, hand made artisan pipes will, more often than not, be impeccable. It is not the case of more inexpensive pipes.
- There is the question of the finishing. Artisans will pay much more detail to... (important) details. Scratches from files on the stem or the briar, for example, will not be visible on a high quality pipe. The stain will not stain your fingers under heat on a high quality pipe.
- There is the question of the briar. After acquiring the briar from an established and reputable cutter (some, or the most at least, will usually go on site to select the briar themselves), artisans will usually age their briar much longer before using it. An individual boring and shaping pipes will have a pretty good idea, from the smell the briar releases while being worked on, if he is dealing with briar that will have the potential of being a great smoker, or not. The more it smells, the less good potential it will have.
- There is the question of quality control. Despite what they pretend, brands such as The White Spot, Castello, Ser Jacopo, etc, do not have the same strict and tight quality control than an artisan: the latter works on the product from A to Z as where the other ones work on specific steps only. I have purchased Dunhill, Castello (without mentioning Peterson) pipes that were unacceptable. On the other hand, Savinelli has every single pipe inspected and overall, are pretty good.
- Then, and this is a very important factor, there is the smoker himself. No one is born a pipe smoker. One learns to become one through patience, perseverance and much trial and error. If you smoke like a savage, use very moist tobacco and do not pack your pipe appropriately, a $50 or $2500 pipe will yield the same result.
- There is the fitting of the stem to the shank. No gaps should be perceptible between the shank and stem and the stem must be the same dimension as the shank. Hand made artisan pipes are extremely well constructed at that level.
- There is the aspect of the drilling of the bore hole: an adequate drilling has the bore hole end up flush on the bottom of the tobacco chamber and centered. Again, hand made artisan pipes will, more often than not, be impeccable. It is not the case of more inexpensive pipes.
- There is the question of the finishing. Artisans will pay much more detail to... (important) details. Scratches from files on the stem or the briar, for example, will not be visible on a high quality pipe. The stain will not stain your fingers under heat on a high quality pipe.
- There is the question of the briar. After acquiring the briar from an established and reputable cutter (some, or the most at least, will usually go on site to select the briar themselves), artisans will usually age their briar much longer before using it. An individual boring and shaping pipes will have a pretty good idea, from the smell the briar releases while being worked on, if he is dealing with briar that will have the potential of being a great smoker, or not. The more it smells, the less good potential it will have.
- There is the question of quality control. Despite what they pretend, brands such as The White Spot, Castello, Ser Jacopo, etc, do not have the same strict and tight quality control than an artisan: the latter works on the product from A to Z as where the other ones work on specific steps only. I have purchased Dunhill, Castello (without mentioning Peterson) pipes that were unacceptable. On the other hand, Savinelli has every single pipe inspected and overall, are pretty good.
- Then, and this is a very important factor, there is the smoker himself. No one is born a pipe smoker. One learns to become one through patience, perseverance and much trial and error. If you smoke like a savage, use very moist tobacco and do not pack your pipe appropriately, a $50 or $2500 pipe will yield the same result.
Not to discount the fact that hand made goods by a master craftsman are better than a factory made item, I think some of peoples feelings towards expensive goods is a very subjective and psychological experience.
One will tend to appreciate goods in which they view as expensive or luxurious that they spend alot of money on more so than an item in which little money was spent. A perfect example of this (and one that's been tested to death) outside of the world of pipes is wine and vodka tastings. When you put inexpensive wine into an expensive wine bottle, people put more value, and rate the wine as tasting better than it's cheap counterpart and vice versa even though it's the same exact wine. The same is true for vodka and many other things. It is my belief this is also true in the world of pipes, and it's my belief that part of the reasons some people sujectvily believe their 500-1000 dollar pipes smoke better is this phenomenon. Take a very well made inexpensive pipe and give it to someone and tell them you spent a grand on it and I will place money on that they will be believe it smokes better than a the same pipe if you told them you only spent 150 bucks on. The mind is a powerful thing, and while there is alot of value in a personal experience and the worth an individual places on that experience plays very much into it, but objectively at a certain point there are no measurable decernable differences. Once quality wood is used, the drilling and engineering are spot on and the fit and finish is perfected, what distinguishes say, a 400 dollar pipe from a 2000 dollar one? Only the name on the pipe and how much you paid for it.
This is why personally, I dont want to spend more than a couple 100 on a pipe. To me it's like a tool. A cheap 10 dollar wrench might snap on you while working and it might warp or not fit your nut/bolt exactly and is a waist of money. But spend 10 more bucks and you will get a well made tool that gets the job done well without without issue. One could go and spend 50-100 dollars on a super nice wrench and I'm sure you would be proud of it and you would love to work with it, but at that point that all comes down to personal subjective experience. I view pipes in the same way. But to each his own. Enjoy what you like, its your money so spend it how you like.
One will tend to appreciate goods in which they view as expensive or luxurious that they spend alot of money on more so than an item in which little money was spent. A perfect example of this (and one that's been tested to death) outside of the world of pipes is wine and vodka tastings. When you put inexpensive wine into an expensive wine bottle, people put more value, and rate the wine as tasting better than it's cheap counterpart and vice versa even though it's the same exact wine. The same is true for vodka and many other things. It is my belief this is also true in the world of pipes, and it's my belief that part of the reasons some people sujectvily believe their 500-1000 dollar pipes smoke better is this phenomenon. Take a very well made inexpensive pipe and give it to someone and tell them you spent a grand on it and I will place money on that they will be believe it smokes better than a the same pipe if you told them you only spent 150 bucks on. The mind is a powerful thing, and while there is alot of value in a personal experience and the worth an individual places on that experience plays very much into it, but objectively at a certain point there are no measurable decernable differences. Once quality wood is used, the drilling and engineering are spot on and the fit and finish is perfected, what distinguishes say, a 400 dollar pipe from a 2000 dollar one? Only the name on the pipe and how much you paid for it.
This is why personally, I dont want to spend more than a couple 100 on a pipe. To me it's like a tool. A cheap 10 dollar wrench might snap on you while working and it might warp or not fit your nut/bolt exactly and is a waist of money. But spend 10 more bucks and you will get a well made tool that gets the job done well without without issue. One could go and spend 50-100 dollars on a super nice wrench and I'm sure you would be proud of it and you would love to work with it, but at that point that all comes down to personal subjective experience. I view pipes in the same way. But to each his own. Enjoy what you like, its your money so spend it how you like.
There probably is a confirmation bias, nunnster, but what nullifies part of that is the fact that those of us who have actually explored this have run into 400 dollar pipes that DID NOT smoke better than some particular 300 dollar pipe in our collection.
We're not blindly asserting anything, those of us who feel there's an objective difference.
There are people who think that corncobs smoke identically to briar. If a large group of smokers has a different experience, are they wrong? Or is it more likely that the first group has missed something, is, as it were, failing to experience something.
It's a bit like having too much salt in the food - if your tastes buds are kinda shot, you just don't know if there's too much salt. And a chef tastes the food and says "Blech!". I think the Chef is right, he has more sensitive detection equipment.
I've seen guys on youtube light a pipe and suck it till flames were shooting out the top, and then they proceed to give the tobacco a review! "Tastes like burnt eyebrow hair" No shit! But we discount that review somewhat, saying "That guy really has no idea what he's doing, he's tasting burnt wood (and eyebrow hair), not smoking the tobacco properly."
We're not blindly asserting anything, those of us who feel there's an objective difference.
There are people who think that corncobs smoke identically to briar. If a large group of smokers has a different experience, are they wrong? Or is it more likely that the first group has missed something, is, as it were, failing to experience something.
It's a bit like having too much salt in the food - if your tastes buds are kinda shot, you just don't know if there's too much salt. And a chef tastes the food and says "Blech!". I think the Chef is right, he has more sensitive detection equipment.
I've seen guys on youtube light a pipe and suck it till flames were shooting out the top, and then they proceed to give the tobacco a review! "Tastes like burnt eyebrow hair" No shit! But we discount that review somewhat, saying "That guy really has no idea what he's doing, he's tasting burnt wood (and eyebrow hair), not smoking the tobacco properly."
PS I've never, ever heard anyone smoking a 2000 dollar pipe say "Oh, yes, this is a far better smoker than my 300 dollar Castello."
I've heard two things, over and over, from experienced smokers who care about this kind of thing: Castello, Cooke. Those two brands are the smoker's brands, preferred over any other, time and time again, for the smoking. And I think there's tons of pipes that are in and around that good, I think the current crop of American artisans makes real consistent smokers for example. But I've never ever heard a collector at a pipe show say that he/she collected some certain high dollar pipe because it was objectively a better smoker than a Castello.
I've heard two things, over and over, from experienced smokers who care about this kind of thing: Castello, Cooke. Those two brands are the smoker's brands, preferred over any other, time and time again, for the smoking. And I think there's tons of pipes that are in and around that good, I think the current crop of American artisans makes real consistent smokers for example. But I've never ever heard a collector at a pipe show say that he/she collected some certain high dollar pipe because it was objectively a better smoker than a Castello.
I didn't mean to imply that anyone was wrong in their beliefs. I'm sure there is a difference a small subset of people might be able to discern up till acertain point, I'm very much on board that there is a difference between a 40 dollar pipe and a 200 dollar one (for the most part anyways). But in your analogy, I might be the guy who's tastebuds are shot and can not notice a decernable difference while the chef, as you put it, can. Neither one of us is wrong. But to continue with your analogy, if I can not taste the extra salt, or notice the minor subtleties then what's the point of me spending 300 dollars for a meal by a 5 star chef, when I can get a meal that for my tastes tastes just the same, for 50? Maybe my palette isnt refined enough to notice the difference, but again, I think the simple act of paying 300 dollars for a meal in itself brings for some of the enjoyment one experiences. That's all I was saying. Maybe as others have pointed out, one day my belief will change. Maybe I'll get a nice raise or bonus and break down and spend the extra cash to see. But after over 10 years of experience, I've not really felt the need to do so. If anything I would much rather rescue an old "expensive" estate (like my comoy blue ribbon) that I found for cheap. I think I find much more enjoyment of getting a great deal for quality over forking over a ton of cash. But again, I'm not against anyone who believes or knows there is a difference. It's just for me, I cant taste the extra salt.
I see both sides. I have shot $25,000.00 shotguns and I have shot $400.00 guns. Is the higher priced gun better finished, better woods, etc? Sure but if I was blindfolded could I tell the difference? Probably not. Would I rather shoot with the more valuable gun? You bet. Would I shoot better with the expensive gun? Maybe because I had more faith in it but in reality only a small handful of shooters in the world could take advantage of the quality difference after a certain basic function level. I think Same with pipes. That said, I do love to smoke my more expensive pipes with few exceptions over my lesser expensive pipes. It's all in the eye of the user. Now if anyone wishes to send me a $20,000.00 pipe, I'll be more than glad to do a side by side comparison with my Comoy or Charatan or even my Country Gentleman cob.
LOL. Yeah, please don't, because if you can't tell the difference you don't have ninja senses! 8O :rofl:
You guys got me there. I'm only a 87-88 out of 100 on a great day, even with both eyes open, sober as a judge on Sunday! No ninja here.
It's just like anything else, time and details add dollars. You can take 5 pieces of wood and nail them together to make a table. You can set things on it. You want beveled edges, smooth finish, Queen Anne legs, quality joinery....it costs more. It may not "set" any better, but it is better. If you don't care about fit gaps between stem and shank, dull finishes, duller out of proportion shapes and uncomfortable mouthpieces, then the Devil is not in the details.
As far as smokability, you can gamble on the $20-50 no name eBay specials and you may get an ok one. But you be closer on value for dollar spent buying a MM cob. Even better add move into the $75ish range and get an estate Comoy, GBD or Charatan, or a little more and get a new Stanwell, Savinelli, Butz Choquin. Spending that extra will buy you a bigger jump in quality than the next $200-500 will get you. It depends on if the dollar or the quality is more important.
As far as smokability, you can gamble on the $20-50 no name eBay specials and you may get an ok one. But you be closer on value for dollar spent buying a MM cob. Even better add move into the $75ish range and get an estate Comoy, GBD or Charatan, or a little more and get a new Stanwell, Savinelli, Butz Choquin. Spending that extra will buy you a bigger jump in quality than the next $200-500 will get you. It depends on if the dollar or the quality is more important.
I only started pipe smoking a couple of months ago and I started with cheap Chinese cobs (around $2 each). I upgraded and bought a few MM cobs and now i know the difference between good and bad cobs. It's true, you'll learn a lot by experience and keeping at it.
I only have a couple of briars at the moment, both restorations, and right now I can't tell whether they are good smokers or not. I know I prefer my MM cobs but I'm not sure if that's because they look cleaner and fresher in my mind or if they really do smoke better.
Right now I'm saving up for a low-end Savinelli ($100). I am a man of meager means. This is not a cheap hobby and I live in a country where I can't buy anything locally, and everything I buy overseas adds a $20 cost for shipping. I do like all there is about pipes, the community, the relaxation I get. I intend to keep at it and hope to gain experience little by little.
I only have a couple of briars at the moment, both restorations, and right now I can't tell whether they are good smokers or not. I know I prefer my MM cobs but I'm not sure if that's because they look cleaner and fresher in my mind or if they really do smoke better.
Right now I'm saving up for a low-end Savinelli ($100). I am a man of meager means. This is not a cheap hobby and I live in a country where I can't buy anything locally, and everything I buy overseas adds a $20 cost for shipping. I do like all there is about pipes, the community, the relaxation I get. I intend to keep at it and hope to gain experience little by little.
I really appreciate the amount of discussion that takes place on these forums. They're are many very well thought out opinions. Based on all of the feedback above I went and bought a couple Savinelli pipes to try. The only two pipes I had previous were cheap beginner kit pipes. I have to say I am pleased with the experience so far. I can't see myself ever spending the money for a 200+ dollar pipe myself. There are so many at the $100.00 prices range that are really nice. shame you can't test drive them before you buy them 
There isn’t likely to be a bigger Castello fan on this forum than yours truly, and my days of haunting pipe shows are past, but I never disagreed with those who claimed that pre trans Barlings and patent # Dunhills weren’t equal or better than Castellos from a smoking standpoint. I never had large numbers of either, but I really liked their smoking characteristics just as much as Castello, and on some days more. My continuing attachment to Castellos is due to their smoking characteristics plus their aesthetics plus a long standing simple fascination with them dating from days when they were so scarce. I remember when I would sometimes be in the DC area when Bob Hamlin had just returned from Italy with new stock. I rather easily picked out a few that I bought, but I could and did spend hours just looking at the damn things.
I guess My plan for the future is to stick with Castello brand and dependable refurbished old English estate pipes
In the beginning I thought numerous pipes was the way to go. Now I'm dwindling the collection to a more precise amount that smoke well all the time. I only bought a few artisan pipes and some of the medium priced factory pipes. My ouch factor is about $400 for a given pipe, but that's only buying one a year in that range.
@VoorHees,Yes I do agree,most likely there will come a point where quality naturally surpasses quantity, at least this is my observations and personal experience.
Fittings, quality and fit, finish, the bit, lots of things one expects to be better in an upper level pipe as opposed to a less expensive tool.
How well a pipe smokes is mostly dependent on the expectations of the smoker and the smoker's experience. Low expectations are easily met, even with less than stellar techniques.
I've known collectors who are not really pipe smokers and they base the collection on esthetics. They have no intention of marring or defacing the pipe by loading it up and putting a match to it. It's the "art" for them not, the smoking experience. Many gun collectors are much the same, it's the history and/or beauty.
How well a pipe smokes is mostly dependent on the expectations of the smoker and the smoker's experience. Low expectations are easily met, even with less than stellar techniques.
And therein lies the problem with your question. I'd consider $100.00 pipes to be "cheap" in my subjective opinion. You've asked for what is mostly a subjective observation from the members.
I've known collectors who are not really pipe smokers and they base the collection on esthetics. They have no intention of marring or defacing the pipe by loading it up and putting a match to it. It's the "art" for them not, the smoking experience. Many gun collectors are much the same, it's the history and/or beauty.
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