Being rather new to pipe smoking, I enjoy straight VAs and hope to cellar 10ish pounds of it. I love capstan gold and FVF, though reviews on SP for cheaper VAs are also quite good, e.g. low country: natural virginia which is 5x cheaper than capstan, I ordered 2oz to try it out. While waiting for it to arrive in 4 weeks, I'll ask here, where do the extra money go to in expensive VAs? Is there a significant difference in taste?
Cheap v.s. expensive VA
- Thread starter myhyeung
- Start date
I'm not an expert, so take this for what it's worth: much of the extra money goes to the name. There are other factors, naturally, but an inexpensive tobacco can be every bit as good as the high priced blends. As with pipes, you probably shouldn't believe that just because it costs more it's better.
I don’t know for sure because I too am no expert, but a chunk probably goes to costs like tins, labels, marketing, etc. I also suspect some tinned blends have more age on the tobacco to begin with. I love Sutliff VA Slices. Super affordable straight VA. But it tastes very young at first. Jar it for a few years and you’ll taste a VA that seems way underpriced compared to what you payed for it.
Blending Virginia leaf is a fine art, so I can justify buying premium blends from time to time, but I think bagged tobacco, bulk, and pouch are often good quality and highly enjoyable. Sample small amounts when possible to see what you are getting, and don't overlook the possibility of mixing your own blends.
I call it mixing, what I do at home, because there is no pressing, no oven, and no organized aging involved. I leave blending to the pros.
I call it mixing, what I do at home, because there is no pressing, no oven, and no organized aging involved. I leave blending to the pros.
There’s a few cheaper Virginia blends that I love, quite possibly more than the more expensive flakes I also like. They have their downsides but if you find a few that work for you, it’s great.
My experience compares them to how people look at OTC blends. Straight forward, perhaps a little boring but I can pull right out of the tin and pack without any prep or drying. They are not flakes and they give me the same experience every time.
My experience compares them to how people look at OTC blends. Straight forward, perhaps a little boring but I can pull right out of the tin and pack without any prep or drying. They are not flakes and they give me the same experience every time.
There are quite a few good options for less expensive VA's out there. They all have their own unique characteristics but can be a good value for the money. One of my all time favorites and one of my essential tobaccos is PS Luxury Bullseye Flake. This can be obtained at a reasonable price and is quite good when fresh, but greatly improves with some aging. Newminster 400 is another quality choice. Sutliff VA slices is another. There are many other choices.
With some of these bulk options, you may not initially get some of the complexities and nuances that you may with some of the more expensive and readily known tin options, but if you buy in decent quantity, and jar and let it age, these cheaper bulk options can transform into some really special. Don't let the cost or the pretty packaging lead you to believe that some of the bulk options are inferior. Try a few and see what you think.
With some of these bulk options, you may not initially get some of the complexities and nuances that you may with some of the more expensive and readily known tin options, but if you buy in decent quantity, and jar and let it age, these cheaper bulk options can transform into some really special. Don't let the cost or the pretty packaging lead you to believe that some of the bulk options are inferior. Try a few and see what you think.
For my money, the sweetest inexpensive VA is D&R 3 Sails. It's finely cut so that using it as a blending agent can be more difficult because it kind of matts together it's so fine. It does, however, have a fantastic flavor and is worth having around.
This is a great question, and I think about it sometimes too. Bc in tobacco, sometimes it just stumps me. Here’s what I mean… and bear with me.
If we think of tobacco as a fungible commodity, particularly if we’re just talking about straightforward types (Virginia, Burley, etc.), in theory, economically, it shouldn’t matter. So I’m often inclined to think the higher price stuff just comes companies who have more effectively “decommoditized” their brand. Good marketing and pricing. Perhaps, creating the perception of a better Virginia through slapping on a higher price tag and a fancy design/presentation.
That’s all in theory, though, right? And it makes sense with commodities like corn, wheat, or even alcohols. For example, think Grey Goose vodka, which cost a lot more, but has repeatedly flunked blind taste tests.
I had a buddy who was a bartender explain that to me about Grey Goose. So I can’t cite references, but I trust him, and I imagine it’d be easy enough to look up.
He also told me something about 2 beers I never knew. Bud Light and Busch Light are the exact same recipe. Same thing with Coors Light and Keystone Light. They’re just marketed to different economic demographics. Kinda blew my mind.
But as I said above, with tobacco, this theory stumps me a little more. And that’s because there seems to be so many variables that go into a tobacco. Soil conditions, preparation, drying time, processing, aging etc., etc. Even the type of pipe it’s smoked in, or what’s been smoked before in that pipe can impact how we experience one tobacco to the next. And even our body chemistry can affect how we taste it. And this doesn’t even factor in quantities of various types of leafs that require a master blender’s touch.
Those are just my thoughts on the subject. And the implications abound, I’m sure. But like anyone else, I’m always happy to find a super cheap match that puts a huge smile on my face. And like anyone else, I’m also quite influenced by paying more for “something special.” Whether that’s due to clever marketing/perception or not… well, perhaps someone less gullible and more knowledgeable than me would have to help me figure it out.
If we think of tobacco as a fungible commodity, particularly if we’re just talking about straightforward types (Virginia, Burley, etc.), in theory, economically, it shouldn’t matter. So I’m often inclined to think the higher price stuff just comes companies who have more effectively “decommoditized” their brand. Good marketing and pricing. Perhaps, creating the perception of a better Virginia through slapping on a higher price tag and a fancy design/presentation.
That’s all in theory, though, right? And it makes sense with commodities like corn, wheat, or even alcohols. For example, think Grey Goose vodka, which cost a lot more, but has repeatedly flunked blind taste tests.
I had a buddy who was a bartender explain that to me about Grey Goose. So I can’t cite references, but I trust him, and I imagine it’d be easy enough to look up.
He also told me something about 2 beers I never knew. Bud Light and Busch Light are the exact same recipe. Same thing with Coors Light and Keystone Light. They’re just marketed to different economic demographics. Kinda blew my mind.
But as I said above, with tobacco, this theory stumps me a little more. And that’s because there seems to be so many variables that go into a tobacco. Soil conditions, preparation, drying time, processing, aging etc., etc. Even the type of pipe it’s smoked in, or what’s been smoked before in that pipe can impact how we experience one tobacco to the next. And even our body chemistry can affect how we taste it. And this doesn’t even factor in quantities of various types of leafs that require a master blender’s touch.
Those are just my thoughts on the subject. And the implications abound, I’m sure. But like anyone else, I’m always happy to find a super cheap match that puts a huge smile on my face. And like anyone else, I’m also quite influenced by paying more for “something special.” Whether that’s due to clever marketing/perception or not… well, perhaps someone less gullible and more knowledgeable than me would have to help me figure it out.
I don't think it's marketing because tobacco companies can't do any of that anymore. I suspect it's partly prestige and having a 'legacy' brand name, but also suspect that the more expensive producers probably go to more difficulty sourcing their tobacco, though in this day and age I doubt there is much choice in practice, and in the UK at least, it seems to me that tobacco manufacturers are selling at tiny margins. Here there is very little difference in price between what would be called premium or over the counter.
Very true, and very good points.
Maybe another thing that influences it could be overhead as well. I own a small replacement window business. I sell many of the exact same brands as the big boys in my area, and in some cases even use the exact same installers, but it’s not uncommon for me to beat their prices by THOUSANDS of dollars on a particular job. Namely, bc they have much more overhead than I do due to the sheer size of their businesses. They have trucks, showrooms, warehouses, people answering phones, etc. I have my truck and my smile, ?, and I guess some business cards.
Idk much about the facilities and costs related to the bigger tobacco businesses like GLP or G&H, but I’d imagine those are bigger businesses than say P&C’s match operation.
There is a huge difference in taste to me. I do not like straight Virginia produced by Cornell & Diehl (including C&D branded, as well as Low Country and GL Pease). I find them vegetal and lacking in refinement such as what I find in Virginia blends produced by STG, K&K, Gawith, and even Mac Baren. That's enough for me to wait for releases of European Virginia and spend the extra money on those tins. If they were available in bulk, I'd buy them up. Shame you can no longer get Capstan Blue in 1 lbs bulk.
The extra money goes into the manufacturer's, jobber's, and retailers pockets. It's not like there's a large difference in cost of manufacturing, except, maybe, for the packaging.
Difference in taste? Sure. There are differences in taste between any blends at any level. Do expensive blends equate to better flavor? Not necessarily, since taste is an individual thing. Then again, perception is affected by a variety of inputs. So having spent more money on something one might convince one's self that the product is significantly better and worth the extra charge.
I prefer the flavors to be found in Empire Leaf and agree with you regarding C&D. That said, I do like a couple of C&D's Virginias. As for STG, it's the McDonald's of the pipe tobacco blending world.
Is it just a price thing? Up until 2016 or 2017, Mac Baren's 3 ounce tins were $12 and literally overnight jumped to $20.
Label design and packaging is 100% part of marketing. And running “tasting notes” videos, plus giving samples to reviewers is also part of marketing and it all costs $$.
Empire Leaf - I like that. I've wondered how much American-grown Virginia is making its way overseas. There's still plenty grown here, though I'd imagine most makes its way into cigarettes. Basically, I've tried to figure out why C&D Virginia don't have the same notes and depth that the Euro ones do. I assume it's a difference in how it's processed.
Well, I guess I am one of those that believe that higher price means better quality but I have to agree for certain blends this isn't true. PS Luxury Bulleye flake comes to mind and there are others.
Processing is part of it. Sourcing is another. Empire Leaf (I didn't invent the term) uses leaf from all over the world, India, South America, Africa, etc, and that leaf develops deeper, more pronounced, flavors.
Get what you want to smoke. I like some expensive tobacco and some cheap tobacco, so I smoke both. I mean, it adds up. But what fun in smoking things you don't like?
Taste is in the tongue of the smoker. I mostly cellared higher end Virginias. But Newminster 400 is an excellent Virginia at a fair price. If your goal is 10 lbs, cost is mostly irrelevant, not that big a difference total.