Cellaring

[seanv]

I would love to hear more from people who have smoked decades-old tins of tobacco. If we're all cellaring lots of baccy only to have it quite likely turn to crap in twenty years as soon as it's opened, then it would be wise, at a minimum, to take that consideration into account. I've put away some blends with the (hopefully reasonable) expectation that they'll be good for decades down the road and won't immediately turn to crap when I open them, like the dudes in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade who drink from the fake holy grail and then immediately undergo an ultra-rapid aging process where the shrivel up and die in about fifteen seconds.

I will also add that in a tangentially-related matter, recent scuttlebutt has lead me to believe that perhaps the FDA deeming issues may not pose as much of an immediate threat as we all contemplated. I recall reading a thread about a popular manufacturer stating that they fully intend that a particular post-2007 blend will remain on the market and that they are jumping through the FDA hoops to make it happen. I understand that most of us are cellaring mainly because of concerns about future availability, largely in part due to increased FDA restrictions pushing blenders out of the market.

The overall "tobacco bad, smoking bad, smokers bad" thing of course is still a long-term issue in that all forces seem to be aligned against us, but I have some inkling of hope that at some point this hysteria will have run its course, and if it doesn't run its course, there are certainly other parts of the world that are not engaged in a "tobacco bad" moral panic. I mean, if you can readily buy embargoed Cuban cigars on the internet, whose to say that you won't be able to buy pipe tobacco from China? Even though I also am doing the cellaring thing, I'm hoping that perhaps future availability won't be as big a problem as we all think it might.

I agree with this. For me I am more concerned about the online ordering going away. Buying local is great but the cost and taxes here are insane. I buy what I can at the B&M but I buy about 80% online

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I would love to hear more from people who have smoked decades-old tins of tobacco. If we're all cellaring lots of baccy only to have it quite likely turn to crap in twenty years as soon as it's opened, then it would be wise, at a minimum, to take that consideration into account.

I've been saying since I started cellaring and trying ancient tobaccos with my pipe club... use smaller jars! I use mostly half-pints, but some I use the tiny quarter pints, but not often. And, I never jar more than 3oz in a single jar. This way, when I open the jar, I just have enough open to smoke within a week to a month. This is why the 750ml wine bottles are standard, two glasses of wine per couple. Then you don't have wine oxidizing until the next time you decide to drink. And, not all wines are binge worthy.

I can easily smoke 3 oz of tobacco in a few days, sometimes in a single day... while the rest of the tobacco continues to age in other jars, unimpeded. And, with tobaccos that are very sweet or contain latakia which I don't want to smoke as often, I can just open an oz or and oz and a half at a time.

I know, I know, there are guys who live in a shoebox sized apartment or they are impoverished to the point of not being able to swing the $9 for a case of jars. These guys can just make do with whatever, without making their sob story public. I totally understand, and in those cases, just do whatever makes you happy.

But, for some, it is just a lazy decision, or they don't think the process through. They just buy quart sized jars and shove as much as they can in... because they didn't anticipate how they were going to imbibe once the day arrives... like guys who make a sparkling wine and put it in gallon jugs. The wine will lose its fizz after the first opening, and they can't drink a whole gallon in one sitting.

I throw this out there for the conscientious smoker to consider. For as I've said, I could really care what other smokers do with their cellars. But, some may want to consider these finer points of pondering.

 

[BROBS]

The "shitdust" thing.. is not necessarily the same for every tobacco in any way it is handled. It is just my experience with Virginia based blends without heavy toppings. I can't speak to latakias or heavily cased or topped blends. I just throw it out as a precursory warning, because it's a gamble. There is no sure thing with aging tobaccos. You have to know that there is a chance that someone can spend $200 on an aged tin and get shit, not every time, nor every tobacco, but it is a potential result. Some wines turn to vinegar, and some rolls of the dice craps out. Newbies need to know that there is risk here. And, it would be irresponsible to skim over or exclude the risks from them. It's always a roll of the dice. Hell, even a new tin can come to me moldy or dried out. There's always a chance.

totally.. I get what you're saying. Definitely some can or could turn this way or might always turn this way. You're right in that. Just saying not always and there's no way to know.

 

[BROBS]

I've been saying since I started cellaring and trying ancient tobaccos with my pipe club... use smaller jars! I use mostly half-pints, but some I use the tiny quarter pints, but not often. And, I never jar more than 3oz in a single jar. This way, when I open the jar, I just have enough open to smoke within a week to a month. This is why the 750ml wine bottles are standard, two glasses of wine per couple. Then you don't have wine oxidizing until the next time you decide to drink. And, not all wines are binge worthy.

I can easily smoke 3 oz of tobacco in a few days, sometimes in a single day... while the rest of the tobacco continues to age in other jars, unimpeded. And, with tobaccos that are very sweet or contain latakia which I don't want to smoke as often, I can just open an oz or and oz and a half at a time.

I know, I know, there are guys who live in a shoebox sized apartment or they are impoverished to the point of not being able to swing the $9 for a case of jars. These guys can just make do with whatever, without making their sob story public. I totally understand, and in those cases, just do whatever makes you happy.

But, for some, it is just a lazy decision, or they don't think the process through. They just buy quart sized jars and shove as much as they can in... because they didn't anticipate how they were going to imbibe once the day arrives... like guys who make a sparkling wine and put it in gallon jugs. The wine will lose its fizz after the first opening, and they can't drink a whole gallon in one sitting.

I throw this out there for the conscientious smoker to consider. For as I've said, I could really care what other smokers do with their cellars. But, some may want to consider these finer points of pondering.

I do believe that a pint or even a quart jar will work.... in the future if opened it can be immediately rejarred into smaller jars.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

I've started using small jars... It takes forever to smoke a small jar, if your smoking a few blends.

 

[BROBS]

I've started using small jars... It takes forever to smoke a small jar, if your smoking a few blends.

problem is when you have pounds upon pounds of bulk.. that's a hell of a lot of small jars.

However as @cosmicfolklore has suggested in his post, I use small jars for blends that are already quite aged.. or that I feel would be hurt in the future by more messing around like straighter VA or VaPer blends.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

in the future if opened it can be immediately rejarred into smaller jars.

This works for some that don't have the same worries of interrupting an established environment in the jars. I DO NOT re-bottle wines, and I won't rejar jars of tobacco. Some can... But, I won't... for the reason that once a microbial colony has been established, as it does with wine, an influx of too much oxygen can kill off the colonies. I don't have proof, just as no one has proof of the opposite, it's just a best-practices for me in my thinking.

I just add this, as to continue with my thinking on the process. As I will always say, do what makes YOU feel the most comfortable. I am not dogmatic what what others do, only myself.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

problem is when you have pounds upon pounds of bulk.. that's a hell of a lot of small jars.

However as @cosmicfolklore has suggested in his post, I use small jars for blends that are already quite aged.. or that I feel would be hurt in the future by more messing around like straighter VA or VaPer blends.

Yea it is a lot of jars.. I use the very small jars and pack them really tight, that cuts down on the number a little. I have a bunch of big jars with 1 pound + in them... I really hate looking at em. It'll take me 900 days to finish one of those big jars.

also, I put the small jars back in the box they came in and stack them, after theyre full. It's about the same size really as a few big jars, really.

 

[BROBS]

This works for some that don't have the same worries of interrupting an established environment in the jars. I DO NOT re-bottle wines, and I won't rejar jars of tobacco. Some can... But, I won't... for the reason that once a microbial colony has been established, as it does with wine, an influx of too much oxygen can kill off the colonies. I don't have proof, just as no one has proof of the opposite, it's just a best-practices for me in my thinking.

I just add this, as to continue with my thinking on the process. As I will always say, do what makes YOU feel the most comfortable. I am not dogmatic what what others do, only myself.

the jar isn't fully air tight anyways so..... ?‍

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

This works for some that don't have the same worries of interrupting an established environment in the jars. I DO NOT re-bottle wines, and I won't rejar jars of tobacco. Some can... But, I won't... for the reason that once a microbial colony has been established, as it does with wine, an influx of too much oxygen can kill off the colonies. I don't have proof, just as no one has proof of the opposite, it's just a best-practices for me in my thinking.

I just add this, as to continue with my thinking on the process. As I will always say, do what makes YOU feel the most comfortable. I am not dogmatic what what others do, only myself.

This is the shit I fear.. It's also the shit I don't understand. haha

 

[cosmicfolklore]

that's a hell of a lot of small jars.

Fuck yeh!! I have a whole room now. I totally dig having so many jars that I need a pallet jack to move rooms. But, ultimately, two dozen quarter pints takes up about as much room as 6 quart jars, respectively. It definitely weighs more, but my floors are strong, and I like my cellar looking like a bank vault for a redneck canner.

 

[BROBS]

Yea it is a lot of jars.. I use the very small jars and pack them really tight, that cuts down on the number a little. I have a bunch of big jars with 1 pound + in them... I really hate looking at em. It'll take me 900 days to finish one of those big jars.

also, I put the small jars back in the box they came in and stack them, after theyre full. It's about the same size really as a few big jars, really.

I'd need a spare bedroom to stack my jars

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

the jar isn't fully air tight anyways so..... ?‍

but.. you probably introduce new organisms when you transfer the tobacco.

 

[BROBS]

Fuck yeh!! I have a whole room now. I totally dig having so many jars that I need a pallet jack to move rooms. But, ultimately, two dozen quarter pints takes up about as much room as 6 quart jars, respectively. It definitely weighs more, but my floors are strong, and I like my cellar looking like a bank vault for a redneck canner.

hahaha well we're about to move so I'm going to find out how much fun it is to move full totes of tobacco jars and about 300 unopened tins. And my wife will probably find out how Lorena Bobbit felt....

 

[BROBS]

but.. you probably introduce new organisms when you transfer the tobacco.

I don't... you might.

nah I don't buy into all that. If your hands and the jar/materials are all clean there is nothing to introduce IMO.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

I'd need a spare bedroom to stack my jars

I'm thinking that a stack of boxes of big jars takes up about the same amount of space, as a stack of boxes of little jars.. you're gunna have to rent a storage unit anyways. haha

 

[BROBS]

I'm thinking that a stack of boxes of big jars takes up about the same amount of space, as a stack of boxes of little jars.. you're gunna have to rent a storage unit anyways. haha

haha well I have a spare bedroom for myself in the new place but I'd like to put some other shit in there lol

 

[cosmicfolklore]

the jar isn't fully air tight anyways so..... ?‍

If that is your thinking. But, neither is a cork air-tight, but I;'m not about to pour a twelve year old Pinot Grigio into another bottle or even re-cork it and set it back in the cellar. But, that's just me. The key to my thinking on this is a massive influx of oxygen... I just have no idea what this does, with absolutely no science on it. Maybe you are right, or even doing a better job than me. I have no 100% assurity, but I just do what my thinking and understanding of the process dictates.

As I started in my first post in the thread, half will fight the other half on this. I don't care to fight, just explain my thinking, and maybe it helps someone clarify their thinking one way or another, because (as I also said) there is no true science or facts on any of this. Not like there is with winemaking... we know more about what is happening with making cheese than we do aging pipe tobaccos.

 

[BROBS]

If that is your thinking. But, neither is a cork air-tight, but I;'m not about to pour a twelve year old Pinot Grigio into another bottle or even re-cork it and set it back in the cellar. But, that's just me. The key to my thinking on this is a massive influx of oxygen... I just have no idea what this does, with absolutely no science on it. Maybe you are right, or even doing a better job than me. I have no 100% assurity, but I just do what my thinking and understanding of the process dictates.

As I started in my first post in the thread, half will fight the other half on this. I don't care to fight, just explain my thinking, and maybe it helps someone clarify their thinking one way or another, because (as I also said) there is no true science or facts on any of this. Not like there is with winemaking... we know more about what is happening with making cheese than we do aging pipe tobaccos.

one thing I'll say is that tobacco isn't really similar in any way to wine. It's more similar to storing a spice.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

one thing I'll say is that tobacco isn't really similar in any way to wine. It's more similar to storing a spice.

Storing wines... mmmmm... temperatures, light, the storage vessels, the metabolism of alcohols and sugars into more complex molecules... it's more similar than you'd think. But, just how similar? I won't make any dogmatic statements to that. But, yeh, it is a LOT like storing herbs and spices. I just have no interest in aging any paprikas myself, ha ha.