I’m looking to cellar some Plum Pudding from Seattle Pipe Club and some Bengal Slices... any tips?
Cellaring
- Thread starter RollTide17
- Start date
SmokingPipes.com Updates
Watch for Updates Twice a Week
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
Site Sponsors
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
Store it in a place near room temperature with stable temp and humidity. If concerned and/or planning to cellar it for an extended period of time, 10 years plus, then buy some 7mm mylar bags and put the tins in the bags, then heat seal them.
Should I leave the tins unopened and vacuum sealed? Thanks for the help!
Yes. Search the forum. There have been countless threads in just the past six months regarding tobacco storage and adding.
Depends on what you are trying to do with it.
There's some evidence to suggestion that contact surface with air helps the "aging" process, however you want to define that, but on a small scale over short time periods it won't bemuch of a difference - 3+ years maybe something to try.
The Plum Pudding "tuna cans" are very safe unopened, as long as the tin/seal is not damaged it'll last til the end of time.
There's some evidence to suggestion that contact surface with air helps the "aging" process, however you want to define that, but on a small scale over short time periods it won't bemuch of a difference - 3+ years maybe something to try.
The Plum Pudding "tuna cans" are very safe unopened, as long as the tin/seal is not damaged it'll last til the end of time.
To say that air is good for aging goes against the classical model of sealed tins smoked after decades of aging. To subject the tobacco to air forces anaerobic aging to become aerobic, and then back again if the container is resealed.
But whether this upshift and downshift is in any way bad for the aging effects that we prize is subjective, just like the host of other subjective processes in pipe smoking. If you can't taste it it doesn't exist, but the next may. So subjective and unprovable. The only was to objectivity is to put into language your pipe experience, and if the next guy finds the same thing, you have begun a community, and perhaps a movement of opinion.
But whether this upshift and downshift is in any way bad for the aging effects that we prize is subjective, just like the host of other subjective processes in pipe smoking. If you can't taste it it doesn't exist, but the next may. So subjective and unprovable. The only was to objectivity is to put into language your pipe experience, and if the next guy finds the same thing, you have begun a community, and perhaps a movement of opinion.
Buy the tins, put 'em on a shelf. Cellaring accomplished.
I have quite a bit of Plum Pudding cellaring, and I don’t think it’ll need to get bagged up in addition to the sealed tin. I believe most or all of the rectangular tins that are not threaded (Mac Baren HH, Gawith Hoggarth, etc.) probably need Mylar eventually for long term storage. But PP and Bengal... just keep them in a temp controlled room, out of direct sunlight and they should be ?
I thought Peck had 600 lbs? He must store his bulk in another area.
Personally I don’t trust those Sutliff tins that the Plum Pudding now comes in, those walls are made of cardboard. I would open them and jar them.... well that’s exactly what I did, I bought a bunch of the Bourbon Barrel Aged, that stuff is wonderful!
That's quite a haul!
Half of us come to fisticuffs with the other half over the whole jarring tins. I cannot believe for one second that they were better at sealing round tins ten, twenty, thirty years ago. Those round and square tins have been around for a looooong time.
Then, being a student of winemaking, you have the whole phenomena of micro-oxygenation that occurs as air passes through the cork, which betters the wine. We don't know enough about what happens to tobaccos in the aging process, and what actually makes it better or worse. We just know that for a long time, guys just stacked up tins and the older tins tasted better. And, being an avid canner of foods, there is some air that seeps under the lids as well, and cranking the rings down does absolutely nothing. The rings are designed to hold the lid in place during the violent pressure process. It was not designed to be hand tightened with no heat or vacuum, pressure processing.
What we have are arguments built on guess work.
In my experience, what I do know is that once aging has peaked, then opening a tin or jar starts a process of quickly turning that tobacco into shit dust. How long is peak aging?.. absolutely no one knows for certain.
So, basically, if do what the hell you want, because we are all grasping at straws. However, I do know with certainty that if you ever plan on selling that tobacco, only a braindead moron would pay premium prices for a jar of who-the-hell-knows-what, and I certainly would never buy a sealed bag... if you are paying extra for the aging. That's like buying a 10 year old wine that you want to sample for the experience, in which the wine has been removed from the bottle and put into a quart jar or bag. When was it jarred? What the hell is it really? Were they sanitary when they did this? Can I totally trust this person not to be scamming me? Or, did he buy this bag of wine from someone else?
We can banter all day. Some feel safer jarring their tinned tobaccos. Some of these are fairly trustable long time collectors of tobaccos. And, I respect their judgement. But, it's just not for me.
Some experts totally trust the tins.
It's not a life or death situation. I just chose to leave them in the tins because this has worked for a loooooong time. This is actually how cellaring started.
If you are worried, store the tin, and try to open the tins by hand occasionally. If they open easily, you know that one needs to go into a jar. I have yet to find a tin that opens easily in my collection... except for a few that were loose to begin with straight from the retailer. And, it may even be that someone on their end may have dropped the tin or a customer opened it on the shelf and returned it. And, yes, those I jarred, because arguing on the phone with a retailer about who did what is not something I enjoy. It's easier to just jar it and deal.
So... basically... this is the argument. Think about it, and make your own decisions. Because, it doesn't really matter to me what someone else does with their tobacco. Both sides are right to some extent, without any science to back up our arguments.
I hope this helps and gives you something more to think about.
Then, being a student of winemaking, you have the whole phenomena of micro-oxygenation that occurs as air passes through the cork, which betters the wine. We don't know enough about what happens to tobaccos in the aging process, and what actually makes it better or worse. We just know that for a long time, guys just stacked up tins and the older tins tasted better. And, being an avid canner of foods, there is some air that seeps under the lids as well, and cranking the rings down does absolutely nothing. The rings are designed to hold the lid in place during the violent pressure process. It was not designed to be hand tightened with no heat or vacuum, pressure processing.
What we have are arguments built on guess work.
In my experience, what I do know is that once aging has peaked, then opening a tin or jar starts a process of quickly turning that tobacco into shit dust. How long is peak aging?.. absolutely no one knows for certain.
So, basically, if do what the hell you want, because we are all grasping at straws. However, I do know with certainty that if you ever plan on selling that tobacco, only a braindead moron would pay premium prices for a jar of who-the-hell-knows-what, and I certainly would never buy a sealed bag... if you are paying extra for the aging. That's like buying a 10 year old wine that you want to sample for the experience, in which the wine has been removed from the bottle and put into a quart jar or bag. When was it jarred? What the hell is it really? Were they sanitary when they did this? Can I totally trust this person not to be scamming me? Or, did he buy this bag of wine from someone else?
We can banter all day. Some feel safer jarring their tinned tobaccos. Some of these are fairly trustable long time collectors of tobaccos. And, I respect their judgement. But, it's just not for me.
Some experts totally trust the tins.
It's not a life or death situation. I just chose to leave them in the tins because this has worked for a loooooong time. This is actually how cellaring started.
If you are worried, store the tin, and try to open the tins by hand occasionally. If they open easily, you know that one needs to go into a jar. I have yet to find a tin that opens easily in my collection... except for a few that were loose to begin with straight from the retailer. And, it may even be that someone on their end may have dropped the tin or a customer opened it on the shelf and returned it. And, yes, those I jarred, because arguing on the phone with a retailer about who did what is not something I enjoy. It's easier to just jar it and deal.
So... basically... this is the argument. Think about it, and make your own decisions. Because, it doesn't really matter to me what someone else does with their tobacco. Both sides are right to some extent, without any science to back up our arguments.
I hope this helps and gives you something more to think about.
@cosmicfolklore I believe some air certainly has to pass through the seal of the tin just like a wine cork.
I also agree that if the tin is sealed.. leave it that way and cellar.
Onto another point: I opened a sealed 1960's tin of Gold Block and it had perfect moisture that had turned into a sort of delicious goo. I jarred it.. still has the same moisture level and is just fine. I see it staying that way for a long time unless I am constantly opening the jar... so the "shit dust" theory on that one for me flies out the window. Now if I stored it in the tin.. yes: it would be shit dust within a very short period of time because the moisture left in the tobacco when it's really old flashes off much faster than moisture on "new" tobacco. So I think that may be the source of some of the "shit dust" is exposing this old tobacco to air for too long or too many times.
back to the wine cork: on the seal of this gold block tin you could see small dark areas where air or gasses had either escaped or entered the tin. So some type of equalization between the tin and the outer world most certainly happened.
I also agree that if the tin is sealed.. leave it that way and cellar.
Onto another point: I opened a sealed 1960's tin of Gold Block and it had perfect moisture that had turned into a sort of delicious goo. I jarred it.. still has the same moisture level and is just fine. I see it staying that way for a long time unless I am constantly opening the jar... so the "shit dust" theory on that one for me flies out the window. Now if I stored it in the tin.. yes: it would be shit dust within a very short period of time because the moisture left in the tobacco when it's really old flashes off much faster than moisture on "new" tobacco. So I think that may be the source of some of the "shit dust" is exposing this old tobacco to air for too long or too many times.
back to the wine cork: on the seal of this gold block tin you could see small dark areas where air or gasses had either escaped or entered the tin. So some type of equalization between the tin and the outer world most certainly happened.
The "shitdust" thing.. is not necessarily the same for every tobacco in any way it is handled. It is just my experience with Virginia based blends without heavy toppings. I can't speak to latakias or heavily cased or topped blends. I just throw it out as a precursory warning, because it's a gamble. There is no sure thing with aging tobaccos. You have to know that there is a chance that someone can spend $200 on an aged tin and get shit, not every time, nor every tobacco, but it is a potential result. Some wines turn to vinegar, and some rolls of the dice craps out. Newbies need to know that there is risk here. And, it would be irresponsible to skim over or exclude the risks from them. It's always a roll of the dice. Hell, even a new tin can come to me moldy or dried out. There's always a chance.
I would love to hear more from people who have smoked decades-old tins of tobacco. If we're all cellaring lots of baccy only to have it quite likely turn to crap in twenty years as soon as it's opened, then it would be wise, at a minimum, to take that consideration into account. I've put away some blends with the (hopefully reasonable) expectation that they'll be good for decades down the road and won't immediately turn to crap when I open them, like the dudes in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade who drink from the fake holy grail and then immediately undergo an ultra-rapid aging process where the shrivel up and die in about fifteen seconds.
I will also add that in a tangentially-related matter, recent scuttlebutt has lead me to believe that perhaps the FDA deeming issues may not pose as much of an immediate threat as we all contemplated. I recall reading a thread about a popular manufacturer stating that they fully intend that a particular post-2007 blend will remain on the market and that they are jumping through the FDA hoops to make it happen. I understand that most of us are cellaring mainly because of concerns about future availability, largely in part due to increased FDA restrictions pushing blenders out of the market.
The overall "tobacco bad, smoking bad, smokers bad" thing of course is still a long-term issue in that all forces seem to be aligned against us, but I have some inkling of hope that at some point this hysteria will have run its course, and if it doesn't run its course, there are certainly other parts of the world that are not engaged in a "tobacco bad" moral panic. I mean, if you can readily buy embargoed Cuban cigars on the internet, whose to say that you won't be able to buy pipe tobacco from China? Even though I also am doing the cellaring thing, I'm hoping that perhaps future availability won't be as big a problem as we all think it might.
The "tobacco Bad" thing might blow over.. It has in the past.