Carolina Red Flake Is Yucky

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Singularis

Part of the Furniture Now
Sep 11, 2019
618
3,039
Wausau, Wis
Mississippi River is sour as it is and they went ahead and bourbon barreled it and caked it and turned it into a sour 🥊. I can smoke it and enjoy it but I gotta be in the right mood.
Interesting. Pipe tobaccos of most kinds -- but especially aged/stoved VAs and Latakia blends, but not burley blends -- have tasted sour to me since losing my sense of smell (for some unknown reason ;)) and getting it back. I first noticed it with some a small plug of Plum Pudding that someone gifted me. It tasted nothing like I remembered it tasting from several years back. It's possible the recipe changed since SPC went over to Sutliff, and that's what I chalked it up to.

All that said, I still enjoy VAs and VaPers, but have yet to taste Carolina Red Flake. I have two '22 tins waiting for some future day.
 

Sethology12

Might Stick Around
Jan 27, 2023
81
158
Richmond, Va
I know my way around VAs and you are exactly right. The problem is low natural sugar content VAs combined with a general aversion to casings across the board at C&D. Every year CRF is released I‘m surprised to see that the natural sugar content is right there on the label- good for them for being up front but I’m guessing they are betting on most people having no idea what that number means. It has ranged from 8 to 13%. McClelland VAs were usually 20% plus, and closed shop when they could no longer source that kind of leaf. Casings can help make up for low sugar content but C&D seems to want to keep that to an absolute minimum. For me, low sugar content VAs with minimal casing taste just like raw burley. A lot of people seem to like that, I don’t.

Aside from how it tastes fresh, low sugar content crushes aging potential. Fermentation is a big part of aging and that requires sugar, natural or added. C&D VAs seem impervious to aging, especially those from about 2012 on. I think that’s due to low sugar content and minimal casing.

I‘m not a C&D hater, I remember calling in orders 20 years ago and ordering blends by the pound and for $2 more they would press them into a brick for you, any blend. I just think VAs have never been their strong suit.
Sounds to me like a moot point if the crop just isn't there. Which may or may not be completely true. Gl pease seemed to take umbrage with Mike's saying that as he believes there's still plenty of good weed kicking around. I have one tin of Christmas cheer and one tin of 40th anniversary and I love both. But to me CRF doesn't taste that much less sweet. Still. For those of us without a cellar of 15 year old vas we must make do.
 
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skydog

Part of the Furniture Now
Jun 27, 2017
583
1,544
I
Sounds to me like a moot point if the crop just isn't there. Which may or may not be completely true. Gl pease seemed to take umbrage with Mike's saying that as he believes there's still plenty of good weed kicking around. I have one tin of Christmas cheer and one tin of 40th anniversary and I love both. But to me CRF doesn't taste that much less sweet. Still. For those of us without a cellar of 15 year old vas we must make do.
Yeah I've heard interviews where Mike talks about the sugar content of their VA being high but I've never heard a number. I know he was talking about some other leaf in a blend being over 20% but it wasn't the VA. Either way I have enjoyed all the releases of CRF that I've bought over the years.

I originally just enjoyed it for what it was despite it falling short of my favorite McClelland. But then a few years back I compared CRF to 40th anniversary alternating two pipes at once and was somewhat stunned how close the flavors were to my taste buds. I still prefer McClelland VA over any other tobacco but there are a lot of good VA tobaccos out there still including CRF in my opinion.
 

anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
16,685
31,282
46
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
Some never find a liking for Virginias regardless of the pipe used. Forum member npod who has one of the biggest collections of Castellos I've seen often commented on continous attempts to like them because he thought that made someone a serious pipe smoker. He settled on and was happy enjoying burley.
wait till they find out they're all tobacco and all have they're charms and down sides. Don't understand that trying to enjoy a type of something you just don't enjoy. I love how people always get this the serious pipe smokers enjoy.... For a while it was straight English with decent lat. Wait for it long enough and it will be Burly.
 
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anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
16,685
31,282
46
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
I agree on small pipes, +1! 👍

My tiny Bay Denmark apple is my VA only blend pipe, and this is very small, slowly is the only way to go. ;)

View attachment 207401


which is funny for me VAs shine in larger pipes with longer smoke times. That's where the best magic happens.
 
Nov 20, 2022
2,751
27,859
Wisconsin
I

Yeah I've heard interviews where Mike talks about the sugar content of their VA being high but I've never heard a number. I know he was talking about some other leaf in a blend being over 20% but it wasn't the VA. Either way I have enjoyed all the releases of CRF that I've bought over the years.

I originally just enjoyed it for what it was despite it falling short of my favorite McClelland. But then a few years back I compared CRF to 40th anniversary alternating two pipes at once and was somewhat stunned how close the flavors were to my taste buds. I still prefer McClelland VA over any other tobacco but there are a lot of good VA tobaccos out there still including CRF in my opinion.
High sugar leads to great fermentation. Once the oxygen is gone, aging the tobacco changes the flavor anaerobically. That is why aging VA tobacco works so well!
 

Sethology12

Might Stick Around
Jan 27, 2023
81
158
Richmond, Va
I

Yeah I've heard interviews where Mike talks about the sugar content of their VA being high but I've never heard a number. I know he was talking about some other leaf in a blend being over 20% but it wasn't the VA. Either way I have enjoyed all the releases of CRF that I've bought over the years.

I originally just enjoyed it for what it was despite it falling short of my favorite McClelland. But then a few years back I compared CRF to 40th anniversary alternating two pipes at once and was somewhat stunned how close the flavors were to my taste buds. I still prefer McClelland VA over any other tobacco but there are a lot of good VA tobaccos out there still including CRF in my opinion.
What are some of your favorites? I have a tin of 40th anniversary and 5 3.5 oz tins of Christmas cheer. I love hh macbaren virginia, capstan, union Square, opening night, interlude, FVF, orlik, CRF and ofc CC. Are there any sleepers I'm missing
 
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hawky454

Lifer
Feb 11, 2016
5,338
10,232
Austin, TX
wait till they find out they're all tobacco and all have they're charms and down sides. Don't understand that trying to enjoy a type of something you just don't enjoy. I love how people always get this the serious pipe smokers enjoy.... For a while it was straight English with decent lat. Wait for it long enough and it will be Burly.
I think that’s already happening. You hear more and more talk of Burley these days than I’ve ever heard, it will swing back around to another genre that “serious” pipe smokers enjoy. Smoke whatever fits your fancy, otherwise there is no point to it. Who are we trying to impress, other pipe smokers? Haha! The pinnacle of pipe smoking is not VA’s, it’s whatever does it for ya. Be proud of what you smoke and who gives a damn if you smoke some dainty shit like Molte Dolce… :LOL:
 

PipeIT

Lifer
Nov 14, 2020
5,165
30,594
Hawaii
which is funny for me VAs shine in larger pipes with longer smoke times. That's where the best magic happens.

I didn’t mean that comment, as I only smoke VAs in this pipe and no other pipes. I meant, I dedicated my Bay Denmark as a VA pipe.

And I also meant, given it’s size, smoking and sipping slowly with it, is the only way to smoke VAs in it. Of course with a lot of VA blends, you need to smoke them slowly anyways.

I actually love VAs in my bigger pipes too. :)

I smoke now more VAs/VaPers than any other blend, in all my pipes.
 
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