Carl Jung and The Importance of Pipe Smoking

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Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
44,912
117,172
How is Peterson faring with the Dunhills? A parody or same blend/exact replicas??
The only difference is the label. Still made in the same facility by the same people using the same tins, components and recipes.


how for so many great minds pipe smoking was much deeper than just a habit
Those same ones tended to be heavy users of narcotics and hallucinogens, were prone to deviance and spouse abuse, and aren't/weren't people that I would aspire to praise or emulate.
 
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Zamora

Can't Leave
Mar 15, 2023
403
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The only difference is the label. Still made in the same facility by the same people using the same tins, components and recipes.



Those same ones tended to be heavy users of narcotics and hallucinogens, were prone to deviance and spouse abuse, and aren't/weren't people that I would aspire to praise or emulate.
Not sure you have in mind. I was thinking people like Twain, Einstein, Lewis and Tolkien. In any case I'm not endorsing everything somebody did just because I understand why they felt pipes were an important aid in their process
 

Searock Fan

Lifer
Oct 22, 2021
2,206
6,049
Southern U.S.A.
In keeping with the thrust of this thread, in a posting for this forum, it is obviously important to stick to the terms used in smoking and pipes, and to use obscurantism wherever possible. The purpose of this is to prevent one's posting from being read and misinterpreted by ignorant outsiders, and perhaps to discourage an over-inquisitive interest shown by an expert rival. By the time one has reached the higher echelons of nonscience, as a fully qualified expert, obscurantism is instinctive. As a reflex, almost, one would say.

We have accomplished this manoeuvre by the expedient of utilising manually induced frictional heating on topographical substrate high-spots inducing a consequent oxidative/heating effect in the adjacent chemical microenvironment with inherent self-propagating proclivities, and leading inevitably to the initiation of the oxidative process, in a self-sustaining mode, of the contained cellular lignin core. puffy
 

pipedreamin

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 25, 2016
195
167
In keeping with the thrust of this thread, in a posting for this forum, it is obviously important to stick to the terms used in smoking and pipes, and to use obscurantism wherever possible. The purpose of this is to prevent one's posting from being read and misinterpreted by ignorant outsiders, and perhaps to discourage an over-inquisitive interest shown by an expert rival. By the time one has reached the higher echelons of nonscience, as a fully qualified expert, obscurantism is instinctive. As a reflex, almost, one would say.

We have accomplished this manoeuvre by the expedient of utilising manually induced frictional heating on topographical substrate high-spots inducing a consequent oxidative/heating effect in the adjacent chemical microenvironment with inherent self-propagating proclivities, and leading inevitably to the initiation of the oxidative process, in a self-sustaining mode, of the contained cellular lignin core. puffy
Pure Awesomeness!
 

vosBghos

Lifer
May 7, 2022
1,633
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Idaho
I couldn't agree more. People always equate the two, but this demonstrates a misunderstanding of what the word means. It's defined as strictness in fidelity to any code(s) of conduct. The prefix "re-" is again or anew, "ligio" is Latin, meaning "to bind." So...to re-bind...well, that could be anything! It could involve God or not, it could involve a god or not (a god, as opposed to The God...big difference!). At the place I lived previously, the local golf club was everyone's religion. There was a strictness in conforming to the rules/codes of conduct. Nothing to do with theology in the slightest, and judging from how eager they all were to hold meetings and do work on the Sabbath, I can say this with yet more certainty.


I couldn't disagree more. They are all there to point away from God, not to Him, hence the aforementioned "re" prefix. It's a binding to something else, something different from our original binding to the Law as living beings. All religions are creatures of the State, not of God, and the Scripture is peppered with warnings regarding the following of the commandments of men over the commandments of the Creator. That's probably why the word "religion" is only in there a grand total of two times!

All that said, I'm not nearly as well-versed on Jung as I probably should be. Wilhelm Reich quotes Jung often, and he's one of my all time favorites in that field. I'm fairly inspired to get up to snuff on him, so I'm grateful to this thread!
Reich is a wild child , learned about cloudbusting from him and it turned me on to theosophy what a strange world indeed.
 
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pipedreamin

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 25, 2016
195
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Reich is a wild child , learned about cloudbusting from him and it turned me on to theosophy what a strange world indeed.
We have a pilgrimage to the Reich Museum planned, it's not too far. I know little of the guy or his work, been on the radar but haven't zoned in on it yet. The home of the Wilhelm Reich Museum in Rangeley, Maine - https://wilhelmreichmuseum.org/ Love Kate Bush and her killer quirky style, here's her cool story on Reich and Cloudbusting--pipes of a different kind: The story behind Kate Bush’s Cloudbusting video - https://www.dazeddigital.com/music/article/27217/1/the-story-behind-kate-bush-s-cloudbusting-video
Because the world needs more Cloudbusting:
 

vosBghos

Lifer
May 7, 2022
1,633
3,588
Idaho
We have a pilgrimage to the Reich Museum planned, it's not too far. I know little of the guy or his work, been on the radar but haven't zoned in on it yet. The home of the Wilhelm Reich Museum in Rangeley, Maine - https://wilhelmreichmuseum.org/ Love Kate Bush and her killer quirky style, here's her cool story on Reich and Cloudbusting--pipes of a different kind: The story behind Kate Bush’s Cloudbusting video - https://www.dazeddigital.com/music/article/27217/1/the-story-behind-kate-bush-s-cloudbusting-video
Because the world needs more Cloudbusting:
I'm aware, A great book of his is The Mass Psychology Of Fascism, published in 1933 where he pretty much foresaw it all, predating what happened on the last day of June 1934. And as history repeats itself here we go again ;)
 

pipedreamin

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 25, 2016
195
167
I'm aware, A great book of his is The Mass Psychology Of Fascism, published in 1933 where he pretty much foresaw it all, predating what happened on the last day of June 1934. And as history repeats itself here we go again ;)
I'll add it to the pile and yes, there is a lot that seems familiar. Next week--USAID's launch of global ready Diia via WEF playground zero, UKR-- the digital jackboots crest the horizon...
 

gamzultovah

Lifer
Aug 4, 2019
3,206
21,340
Here I wrote my own version of "maps of meaning" and you can write on too just click on the link below.

New Age Bullshit Generator

But seriously regardless of recants and what he/they do Plato wrote some great stuff is all I'm saying and Peterson devotees are following a cult of personality much more than any thinker of great merit. Had it not been for his pro noun snowball that started to roll and the U.N. controlled op money and push behind his overly explained common sense ideas no one would know who he is. Was anyone quoting his delusional rants or sighting him at all in any serious psych papers pre-2016? Like any modern artist, there are those who stick out and their contributions live throughout the ages regardless of their morality or how they lived or died the work is either good and remembered or bad and not.

I too prefer theology but this world is ruled by "the prince of the powers of the air " after all, and itching ears are abound listening to any midwit drivel as if it's golden wisdom these days.
“Do we choose to be born, or are we fitted to the times we’re born into?” Abraham Lincoln was a nobody that few knew of, but look at the massive influence this “nobody” brought to America and the world. Was Mr. Peterson (a relative nobody) fitted to the times he was born into? Follow the cause to his fame (or to some, infamy) and decide for yourself. In any event, the world today is not lessened because of his presence, just as the world in Lincoln’s time was not lessened by his (though many people think it was, and still do).
 
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UB 40

Lifer
Jul 7, 2022
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All my alarm bells are ringing, while reading that Kingsley, whose literature can be found in New Age and esoteric shops, adopted Carl Gustav Jung as subject of his writings. Putting his whole work in a moreover mystic context.

For shure Jung dived deep into mythology and religion of different cultures, yes catholic believes, as well as Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and archaic ideas to get hints on and awareness of what he called collective unconscious. But first of all he was a scientist at the beginning of the last century, an explorer of human psyche and innovator of healing methods.

He is the founder of analytical psychology and he practiced his methods. Psychoanalysis is one of the most important methods today to heal people that suffer from neurosis, psychosis and depression. Without him, Freud and his disciples, Reich was already mentioned, help in psychological crisis would maybe determined in taking pills or putting them in straitjackets, like we did for a long time. Up to the 1970s locking them up, was still the way to do it, in Europe as well as in the US.

Some may be alienated by his unconventional affair with two women. Sexcult??? Or his way to keep a live in solitude in his house in Küsnacht on the shore of Zürichsee to get deeper in exploring psychological experience by taking himself as psychotherapist and patient at the same time. He wrote and painted his Red Book there, he invented the same idea of the Shadow there, the dark spots of our selfs. That may sound like occultism, but it’s not because his aim was to refine his healing methods, to go even deeper into mankind’s soul.

I hope that Kingsley is able to draw a portrait of that genius, besides of exploiting him as a prophet. The idea is ridiculous.

Some of my thoughts on the term for his tobacco box: Habakkuk, a yes many identify him as that prophet that struggled with god. But there is another narrative in Christian, Jewish and Islamic culture that I found much more interesting. It’s the narration of „Daniel in the Lion’s Den“. Here Habakkuk feeds the seer Daniel.

Maybe Jung just showed some humor, the tobacco box providers him in the same way as prophet Habkkuk the seer Daniel not with food, but with the narcotic drug tobacco. Maybe the drug made him get relief from the creatures of his dreams and insights he was into while introspecting. I’m just speculating. Obviously he was addicted to smoking.

It’s a lousy arrangement of the author Kingsley to leave the pipe smoking reader alone on this topic. Maybe someone is better advised to get in touch with Jung by dipping their toes in the vast amount of serious philosophical and scientific literature.

And here is something that illuminates Jungs relationship to God. Yes, he said he believed in God. Not that important for me. Sorry, only subtitles available for Americans:

 
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pipedreamin

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 25, 2016
195
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All my alarm bells are ringing, while reading that Kingsley, whose literature can be found in New Age and esoteric shops, adopted Carl Gustav Jung as subject of his writings. Putting his whole work in a moreover mystic context.

I hope that Kingsley is able to draw a portrait of that genius, besides of exploiting him as a prophet. The idea is ridiculous.

It’s a lousy arrangement of the author Kingsley to leave the pipe smoking reader alone on this topic. Maybe someone is better advised to get in touch with Jung by dipping their toes in the vast amount of serious philosophical and scientific literature.

Yes, he said he believed in God.
Before you judge Kingsley or Catafalque, it needs to be read. There is so much of that going on today, a headline, a snippet passes for due diligence, far too many free-flowing opinions, on too many subjects, with little real knowledge of the material.
It's almost always done in the "defense" of "science," but typically leveled by followers of the church of scientism--it's very often belief and confirmation bias, not objective interest and investigation. Catafalque has 360 pages of citations from Jung's journals, letters and collected works. Kingsley's case is not a stretch.
If an "esoteric" shop carries his books that discredits him how? Is there a problem with the world's esoterica?(wish I had more Pembroke!) I know much material has been pilfered, re-wriiten from ancient texts with new spin by grifters but to toss out the baby would be a great loss.
I'm not taking Kingsley at his word. Reading Jung's works, the original source and one sees the material contains much of spiritual value, it's mostly that, if you've an ear to see and an eye to hear:). Sure there are some mechanics of mind but most is much further reaching. I find nothing at all ridiculous about looking at Jung as a modern prophet of sorts. It's the deification of human reason/intellect that rebels against the notion. We are infants in terms of our conscious awareness of what we are. It's absurd to think we have anywhere near the full story regarding the nature of the human psyche.
Jung didn't believe in God, he knew!:
"All that I have learned has led me step by step to an unshakable conviction of the existence of God. I only believe in what I know. And that eliminates believing. Therefore I do not take his existence on belief – I know that he exists (Sands 1955, p. 6)"
 
Mar 28, 2023
6
9
I couldn't agree more. People always equate the two, but this demonstrates a misunderstanding of what the word means. It's defined as strictness in fidelity to any code(s) of conduct. The prefix "re-" is again or anew, "ligio" is Latin, meaning "to bind." So...to re-bind...well, that could be anything! It could involve God or not, it could involve a god or not (a god, as opposed to The God...big difference!). At the place I lived previously, the local golf club was everyone's religion. There was a strictness in conforming to the rules/codes of conduct. Nothing to do with theology in the slightest, and judging from how eager they all were to hold meetings and do work on the Sabbath, I can say this with yet more certainty.


I couldn't disagree more. They are all there to point away from God, not to Him, hence the aforementioned "re" prefix. It's a binding to something else, something different from our original binding to the Law as living beings. All religions are creatures of the State, not of God, and the Scripture is peppered with warnings regarding the following of the commandments of men over the commandments of the Creator. That's probably why the word "religion" is only in there a grand total of two times!

All that said, I'm not nearly as well-versed on Jung as I probably should be. Wilhelm Reich quotes Jung often, and he's one of my all time favorites in that field. I'm fairly inspired to get up to snuff on him, so I'm grateful to this thread!
It is my understanding that the argument that religion can be "re-binding" may not be correct. Religio in latin means "conscientiousness, sense of right, moral obligation, duty

 
Mar 28, 2023
6
9
The prefix "re-" is again or anew, "ligio" is Latin, meaning "to bind." So...to re-bind...well, that could be anything! It could involve God or not, it could involve a god or not (a god, as opposed to The God...big difference!). At the place I lived previously, the local golf club was everyone's religion. There was a strictness in conforming to the rules/codes of conduct. Nothing to do with theology in the slightest, and judging from how eager they all were to hold meetings and do work on the Sabbath, I can say this with yet more certainty.


I couldn't disagree more. They are all there to point away from God, not to Him, hence the aforementioned "re" prefix. It's a binding to something else, something different from our original binding to the Law as living beings. All religions are creatures of the State, not of God, and the Scripture is peppered with warnings regarding the following of the commandments of men over the commandments of the Creator. That's probably why the word "religion" is only in there a grand total of two times!

All that said, I'm not nearly as well-versed on Jung as I probably should be. Wilhelm Reich quotes Jung often, and he's one of my all time favorites in that field. I'm fairly inspired to get up to snuff on him, so I'm grateful to this thread!
I love Jung's work and never got the impression he was necessarily anti-religion per se, at least in the dozen books I read by him. My takeaway was that he saw religion as something intrinsic in the human condition. For example, in his Religion and Western Psychology work, he argued that Catholic mass results in a more mentally balanced individual and that protestant pastors needed more psychological training to offset the lack of the mass experience. His father was a Swiss protestant pastor so Jung comes from a very religious household. While they did reject Catholicism, they also didn't feel bound to limit themselves to particular religious texts and that means he can bring in some interesting perspectives.

He also makes an excellent argument why the Catholics added the father son and holy ghost- because father-son was too binary and too static, but a tri-head of father-son-ghost makes a triangle and gives motion to the concept of god.... in other words, it was more psychotically pleasing. He even went into the history of multiple beings in the godhead- ie how the Egyptians (I think it was Egyptians- haven't read the book in 30 years) included the devil into their godhead and that formed a quaternity and that also had an impact on a person's psychological outlook because it was more spatial than thinking of god a father-son or even father-son-ghost. And if you think you understand the bible's Book of Job- read his "Answer to Job". I'm not even Christian and that book blew my mind.

Anyways, I think the 're-binding' used here is not correct- it's very clear what the word means. The etymology of the term is a little complicated as it changed a little but is consistently is used similarly. Anyways the focus is not on 're' and 'ligio,' but the term 'religio'.... The Latin dictionary defines "religio" as "conscientiousness, sense of right, moral obligation, duty." That was how Cicero used it 2000 years ago. Then the French bring it back to life in the 11 century.

Even if you still want to go down the rabbit hole on the "re" prefix and binding, the prefix is more about repetition- so it's more about repetitively being bound to something, not a single re-binding, more like constantly being rebound to an obligation. But the etymology of the word avoids all this because it was always defined since 11th century about belief in a supernatural being.

religion | Etymology, origin and meaning of religion by etymonline - https://www.etymonline.com/word/religion

 

Servant King

Lifer
Nov 27, 2020
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It is my understanding that the argument that religion can be "re-binding" may not be correct. Religio in latin means "conscientiousness, sense of right, moral obligation, duty

Oops! It's "ligare" not "ligio" that I was thinking of. They probably mean the same thing ultimately (although not being a Latin connoisseur, I can't say this for sure), due to the "lig" part--ligament is the first word that pops into my mind to evidence this.

...He also makes an excellent argument why the Catholics added the father son and holy ghost- because father-son was too binary and too static, but a tri-head of father-son-ghost makes a triangle and gives motion to the concept of god.... in other words, it was more psychotically pleasing. He even went into the history of multiple beings in the godhead- ie how the Egyptians (I think it was Egyptians- haven't read the book in 30 years) included the devil into their godhead and that formed a quaternity and that also had an impact on a person's psychological outlook because it was more spatial than thinking of god a father-son or even father-son-ghost. And if you think you understand the bible's Book of Job- read his "Answer to Job". I'm not even Christian and that book blew my mind.
I've always looked bemusedly upon the justification religions offer up when it comes to the alteration of the Scripture (which, coincidentally, is forbidden in Deuteronomy!). Growing up Jewish certainly gave me an interesting perspective on this, because Judaism is notorious for adding stuff, whereas Christianity and Catholicism both seem to favor the other route and remove things. The trinity thing is an exception--that one was fairly easy to force into the Christological formation in the first few centuries AD, chiefly because, in our societies, the people have to be all three in order for our society (and legal system) to work--the Creator, the Created, and the Giver of life. I don't know if Jung knew of exactly how human societies counterfeit God's system of government (supplanting it with our own), but he certainly knew enough to avoid some of the pitfalls that come about through leaving this "human condition" unchecked.

...Anyways, I think the 're-binding' used here is not correct- it's very clear what the word means. The etymology of the term is a little complicated as it changed a little but is consistently is used similarly. Anyways the focus is not on 're' and 'ligio,' but the term 'religio'.... The Latin dictionary defines "religio" as "conscientiousness, sense of right, moral obligation, duty." That was how Cicero used it 2000 years ago. Then the French bring it back to life in the 11 century.

Even if you still want to go down the rabbit hole on the "re" prefix and binding, the prefix is more about repetition- so it's more about repetitively being bound to something, not a single re-binding, more like constantly being rebound to an obligation. But the etymology of the word avoids all this because it was always defined since 11th century about belief in a supernatural being.
Well it's clear in the sense that the "lig" part has to do with a bond or a connection to something, but it's also unclear because words are always changing (often with insidious intentions behind it), and that unfortunately does muddle people's ability to understand and communicate ideas. As I mentioned, the scant presence of the word throughout the Scripture indicates that the connection between religion and theism is not at all the case. The connection is to deism, not theism...the belief in a god, as opposed to The God. Big difference!
 
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bullet08

Lifer
Nov 26, 2018
10,208
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I'm sure if you think about it, picking nose is equally important. I think most kids started out wanting to breath easier. Then by curiosity, pop few in their mouth and new delicacy has been found
 

pipedreamin

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 25, 2016
195
167
Oh my. I've certainly strayed far afield peeking into this thread! Ooh wee, my brain hurts!!
No, wait, more bed of nails...we haven't arrived at the argo, art gothic, agotique, argot, and archtectonic, the facade, the thing that stands for something else only hinted at-- the phonetic cabala of words!! Ligion sounds like Legion-- many, a group, we've previously covered re, to do again re-member as opposed to dismember. Re-group... It's mind boggling what people can parse together out of crumbs. Religion is the chemical coniunctio not the Alchemical Coniunctio! The materialist's premature version of re-unification, a penny side show perhaps? Sorry, that may have hurt me more than you, but someone had to say it:)
 

pipedreamin

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 25, 2016
195
167
Anyways, I think the 're-binding' used here is not correct- it's very clear what the word means. The etymology of the term is a little complicated as it changed a little but is consistently is used similarly. Anyways the focus is not on 're' and 'ligio,' but the term 'religio'.... The Latin dictionary defines "religio" as "conscientiousness, sense of right, moral obligation, duty." That was how Cicero used it 2000 years ago. Then the French bring it back to life in the 11 century.

Even if you still want to go down the rabbit hole on the "re" prefix and binding, the prefix is more about repetition- so it's more about repetitively being bound to something, not a single re-binding, more like constantly being rebound to an obligation. But the etymology of the word avoids all this because it was always defined since 11th century about belief in a supernatural being.
Screen Shot 2023-06-11 at 8.45.57 PM.png
An etymologist I am not but found this interesting.