Calculating The Heat of Compression

[sablebrush52]

Does anyone think there would be the same level of fascination if the wreck was the Minnow?

 

[Briar Lee]

Don't forget, the viewing window was rated for a maximum depth of 1300 meters. So unless the window doesn't count, Wiki is wrong.
Each dive was another round of Russian Roulette.
But whether the crew got disappeared at 5 times the heat of the sun, or a much lower pressure and temp, they were probably rendered into chemical compounds if not atoms.

I’ve been reading about the 1960 dive of Trieste to the bottom of Challenger Deeo.

The round 59 inch capsule was made of two inch thick titanium but the portholes were Plexiglas.

An outer layer of a Plexiglass porthole cracked at depth and rocked the ship.

And even in 1960, Rolex made a watch that still worked fine, outside the craft, on the bottom.

Rush was reckless but not suicidal.

Somebody had calculated pressures at maximum depth and every part of the craft was designed for over twice that.

His unconventional cigar shape made Titan as a large as a minivan inside, where every other submersible, manned or remote, that’s ever dove on Titanic was essentially a small, round titanium ball, that used pressure to squeeze the ball and help seal it.

Each time a titanium sphere is lowered there’s cyclic fatigue. That’s why Alvin has been rebuilt almost a dozen times. Carbon fiber also is subject to cyclic fatigue but there’s not sixty years of science to determine the rate.

Some part of the sealing system failed or else some part failed to cyclic fatigue.

It should be interesting what finally is determined the cause.

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

Does anyone think there would be the same level of fascination if the wreck was the Minnow?

The actual SS Minnow is still afloat...

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

I’ve been reading about the 1960 dive of Trieste to the bottom of Challenger Deeo.

The round 59 inch capsule was made of two inch thick titanium but the portholes were Plexiglas.

An outer layer of a Plexiglass porthole cracked at depth and rocked the ship.

And even in 1960, Rolex made a watch that still worked fine, outside the craft, on the bottom.

Rush was reckless but not suicidal.

Somebody had calculated pressures at maximum depth and every part of the craft was designed for over twice that.

His unconventional cigar shape made Titan as a large as a minivan inside, where every other submersible, manned or remote, that’s ever dove on Titanic was essentially a small, round titanium ball, that used pressure to squeeze the ball and help seal it.

Each time a titanium sphere is lowered there’s cyclic fatigue. That’s why Alvin has been rebuilt almost a dozen times. Carbon fiber also is subject to cyclic fatigue but there’s not sixty years of science to determine the rate.

Some part of the sealing system failed or else some part failed to cyclic fatigue.

It should be interesting what finally is determined the cause.

I have some pictures of myself on top of the Trieste somewhere. I used to volunteer at the US Navy museum at the Navy Yard in DC where the Trieste is housed. I used to climb on top of it to dust it. There is a recovered piece of the USS Thresher on display right below it.

The only part of the Trieste that was manned was the tiny little sphere on the bottom, the rest is basically the the buoyancy system. There were several of the spheres made as backups and replacements, I've been inside one of them. It is not for the claustrophobic.

 

[Briar Lee]

I have some pictures of myself on top of the Trieste somewhere. I used to volunteer at the US Navy museum at the Navy Yard in DC where the Trieste is housed. I used to climb on top of it to dust it. There is a recovered piece of the USS Thresher on display right below it.

The only part of the Trieste that was manned was the tiny little sphere on the bottom, the rest is basically the the buoyancy system. There were several of the spheres made as backups and replacements, I've been inside one of them. It is not for the claustrophobic.
View attachment 229742

What wound up killing Rush and four paying customers, was he made the first deep sea submersible large enough to rival a mini van.

Imagine being inside a five foot ball for 12 hours.

The Titan passengers brought along cameras and munched on sandwiches and drinks, cross legged on the floor.

Somebody screwed up.

But it was, a lovely concept.

 

[kcghost]

It makes a mockery of the idiot reporter who ask the Coast Guard "Did you recover any bodies" in an acerbic tone of voice. It tells you the value of a liberal arts education.

 

[georged]

It tells you the value of a liberal arts education.

Indeed.

I watched a comedy movie just last night called Interstellar.

What made it so funny was the people who made it---visual arts types with advanced degrees in dance therapy interpretation studies, theater arts, and so forth---were inspired by a story where hardcore physics was central to every scene.

I'd recommend you check it out, but am afraid you might choke to death from laughing too hard.

 

[huntertrw]

I think I got that right.

Mingc:

I re-checked my figures, and your calculation is exactly correct. Thank-you!

 

[mingc]

Mingc:

I re-checked my figures, and your calculation is exactly correct. Thank-you!

Cool! Only less that half the temperature of the surface of the sun. Balmy!

 

[huntertrw]

I think the hydrostatic pressure would have been lower.

From my post on Friday, June 23. 2023 to the thread titled Titanic Tour Sub Missing. Remarks/Questions:

Based upon what I have read:

The wreck of the RMS Titanic is located approximately 12,500 feet below the sea surface.

The Titan submersible took approximately two hours to reach the wreck, thus, if my arithmetic is correct, it descended at a rate of approximately 103 feet per minute.

Communication was reported to have been lost at approximately one-hour and forty-five minutes into the descent.

Thus, (again, if my arithmetic is correct) the Titan should have been approximately 10,938 feet below the sea surface. According to the Hydrostatic Pressure Calculator on the omnicalculator.com Website, the pressure at that depth would have been 4,757 pounds per square-inch.

To put this into prospective, today the atmospheric pressure at Halifax, Nova Scotia is 1011.58 millibars (or 14.67 PSI). So, in a matter of seconds, the passengers experienced an increase in atmospheric pressure of approximately that 324 times, a sobering thought.

 

[huntertrw]

mingc:

4,839.87°F. To put that into some kind of prospective, the melting point of molybdenum metal is 4,750°F.

 

[Jaylotw]

I have some pictures of myself on top of the Trieste somewhere. I used to volunteer at the US Navy museum at the Navy Yard in DC where the Trieste is housed. I used to climb on top of it to dust it. There is a recovered piece of the USS Thresher on display right below it.

The only part of the Trieste that was manned was the tiny little sphere on the bottom, the rest is basically the the buoyancy system. There were several of the spheres made as backups and replacements, I've been inside one of them. It is not for the claustrophobic.
View attachment 229742

That big ol tank on top of the bathysphere was filled with gasoline. No kidding.

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

That big ol tank on top of the bathysphere was filled with gasoline. No kidding.

Yes they were, for buoyancy that was counteracted by iron pellet filled ballast tanks that could be dumped to ascend.

 

[Jaylotw]

Question
If the heat was that intense and the vessel was not very big why is there any sort of debris field? The vessel imploded it didn’t explode and I would think that temps even approaching those being speculated would vaporize everything in the vicinity.
Thoughts?

So the sub was shaped like a pill, with two nose cones of titanium on both ends and a center cylinder of carbon fiber. It's that center cylinder which imploded. The Coast Guard has said they found the landing skids, the fiberglass tail, and the two nose cones. So, probably the only portion of the craft subjected to the full force of the implosion was the carbon fiber hull, and whatever was inside it. The nose cones, landing gear, and tail simply fell off. The heat we're talking about was probably over in an instant.

Carbon fiber tends to not buckle, crack, or bend...just suddenly loose all integrity and shatter into pieces. They may find some fragments or shards of the hull, but who knows. The people inside were very likely reduced to paste, and no trace will be found, although the searchers have said that they are moving very cautiously just in case remains can be found...but that the search is focused on "bringing up wreckage to investigate."

 

[georged]

Want to watch an actual underwater implosion in real time?

(Not kidding... only the scale is smaller)

 

[mingc]

So, in a matter of seconds, the passengers experienced an increase in atmospheric pressure of approximately that 324 times, a sobering thought.

The implosion was over in a millisecond, long before a human can perceive stimulus. Which is not to say that the occupants weren't terrified by whatever physical precursors there were before the implosion. This is from a BBC article:

What happens in an implosion?

When a submarine hull collapses, it moves inward at about 1,500mph (2,414km/h) - that's 2,200ft (671m) per second, says Dave Corley, a former US nuclear submarine officer.

The time required for complete collapse is about one millisecond, or one thousandth of a second.

A human brain responds instinctually to a stimulus at about 25 milliseconds, Mr Corley says. Human rational response - from sensing to acting - is believed to be at best 150 milliseconds.

The air inside a sub has a fairly high concentration of hydrocarbon vapours.

When the hull collapses, the air auto-ignites and an explosion follows the initial rapid implosion, Mr Corley says.

Human bodies incinerate and are turned to ash and dust instantly.

Titan sub implosion: What we know about catastrophic event

The Titan submersible suffered a violent collapse inwards deep underwater in the North Atlantic.

www.bbc.com

 

[huntertrw]

Interestingly, Mr. Richard Stockton Rush III, the Chief Executive Officer of OceanGate, graduated from Princeton University in 1984 with a Bachelor of Science degree in aerospace engineering. Perhaps he chose the wrong major?

 

[brian64]

Indeed.

I watched a comedy movie just last night called Interstellar.

What made it so funny was the people who made it---visual arts types with advanced degrees in dance therapy interpretation studies, theater arts, and so forth---were inspired by a story where hardcore physics was central to every scene.

I'd recommend you check it out, but am afraid you might choke to death from laughing too hard.

Sadly true. A number of things in it were utterly ludicrous. I expected better from Christopher Nolan because his Inception is one of my all time favorite movies.

 

[LotusEater]

So the sub was shaped like a pill, with two nose cones of titanium on both ends and a center cylinder of carbon fiber. It's that center cylinder which imploded. The Coast Guard has said they found the landing skids, the fiberglass tail, and the two nose cones. So, probably the only portion of the craft subjected to the full force of the implosion was the carbon fiber hull, and whatever was inside it. The nose cones, landing gear, and tail simply fell off. The heat we're talking about was probably over in an instant.

Carbon fiber tends to not buckle, crack, or bend...just suddenly loose all integrity and shatter into pieces. They may find some fragments or shards of the hull, but who knows. The people inside were very likely reduced to paste, and no trace will be found, although the searchers have said that they are moving very cautiously just in case remains can be found...but that the search is focused on "bringing up wreckage to investigate."

Thanks for taking the time to explain all of that. I guess I was jus thinking (wrongly) that with intense pressure on all sides of the vessel that if the hull failed the the two nose cones would be sucked toward the center much like if you put pressure on either end of an empty beer can and flicked the center of the can. The idea being that the carbon fiber hull was a structural member- once it was compromised everything would move toward the low pressure area that had been the interior of the vessel.
Anyway I don’t know anything abot physics so I do appreciate your explanation- thanks.

 

[LotusEater]

Want to watch an actual underwater implosion in real time?

(Not kidding... only the scale is smaller)

That was cool. Thanks for posting.