"Cake" Problems

[luigi]

I noticed that one of my pipes with a decent (but not too thick) cake is having a hard time. A small piece of the carbon layer got off the wall and now there's a small hole. Not a big deal so far but is this normal? Should I ream it to the bare wood now (since the hole in the cake goes all the way to the wall of the bowl (hopefully not any farther)? Is this a first sign of a burnout? It's a Savinelli, it would be strange if the quality was in question. I'd like to use it as long as possible so ignoring problems with cake doesn't sound like a good idea.
[Title edited for capitalization. Please capitalize thread titles - Kevin]

 

[jpmcwjr]

Sounds to me like you have a soft cake built up. Doesn't sound serious; I'd gently ream and start over, if that's the case. But we don't know if it is the case!
Can you post some photos of this?
Once your photos are on a photo hosting site (such as Imgur.com; Photobucket; Postimage; Dropbox, etc.), or on virtually any site, select the full image, then Control-click (Mac) or Right-click (Windows) on the image itself, then choose copy image location. Now paste that URL (the full web address, which should end in .jpg) into the IMG box in the reply window of the thread you're posting to.
The site's album is also a good choice.

 

[sablebrush52]

+1
Sounds like a soft cake. These fall apart. You can build up a hard thin carbon layer over time by using a waded bit of paper towel to wipe off the tobacco from the chamber walls after a smoke. Gradually a more durable coating, one without bits of unburnt tobacco embedded in it, will form over the chamber walls.

 

[luigi]

Thanks for your replies. That's how it looks like, probably just a soft cake as you say.

Sablebrush52, I was thinking about that lately: should I wipe off the ashes and remove remaining tobacco pieces from the chamber immediately after a smoke or do it next day which would be much less efficient.

I always blamed the tobacco for a soft cake which was obvious in a corncob and went off really easily. Rattray's Black Virginia for example often leaves more cake than other blends I smoke.

I don't care about cheap pipes but it would be a pitty to ruin something which was made for more than a year or two.

 

[sumusfumus]

I defer to the opinions of those with more experience....so, is a building up of a layer of this "soft" cake undesirable? Will it eventually be the cause of a burnout? Should this soft cake be reamed away, or, can it be left alone?
I'm guessing that this soft cake is the accumulated build up of sticky, sugary, unburned tobaccos that are stuck to the walls of the tobacco chamber, and not actually charred briar. If this is the case, would it not be an advantage to have a build up of soft cake to act as an "insulation barrier" between the burning tobacco and briar walls of the pipe? Like the fire brick lining of a fireplace?
I need to know. Give it to me straight. I'm starting to get this chippy, soft cake build up in one of my favorite pipes. Ream it, or leave it?
Thanks...
Frank

NYC

 

[sablebrush52]

Sablebrush52, I was thinking about that lately: should I wipe off the ashes and remove remaining tobacco pieces from the chamber immediately after a smoke or do it next day which would be much less efficient.

I always blamed the tobacco for a soft cake which was obvious in a corncob and went off really easily. Rattray's Black Virginia for example often leaves more cake than other blends I smoke.

I don't care about cheap pipes but it would be a pitty to ruin something which was made for more than a year or two.

The best practice is to wipe out the bowl right after smoking. Some blends, like Carter Hall, are believed to improve the rate at which a cake can be built up.
I would remove the old cake and start to rebuild it. Keep in mind that you would be wise to smoke slowly and to take some care not to smoke hot while rebuilding the carbon layer.

I defer to the opinions of those with more experience....so, is a building up of a layer of this "soft" cake undesirable? Will it eventually be the cause of a burnout? Should this soft cake be reamed away, or, can it be left alone?

I always remove soft crumbly cake. When I'm cleaning up an estate, I get rid of all of it and I don't let a soft cake rebuild. I can't say that a crumbly cake will cause a burn out. But it seems likely that a failed cake won't offer the same level of protection as a solid cake. And nothing is going to help if the pipe is smoked like a blast furnace.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I have had chucks of cake break off in some of my pipes, the ones that I actually let cake build up in. I have never found this to be a problem. I just keep smoking it, and eventually the cake creeps when warm and the hole gets filled in somewhat. I'm not a believer that the cake makes any difference whatsoever anyways. My favorite pipes I just keep wiped out so that cake never builds up to begin with. Some use it as an excuse to smoke faster and burn hotter, but if one smokes slow enough one doesn't need the cake anyways. And, some like to the smell of old tobaccos in the cake. But, as far as the pipe goes, if you don't smoke too fast to begin with this isn't an issue at all.
I wouldn't worry about it. I hope this helps, YMMV

 

[saltedplug]

When I wrote an article a few years ago about bowl coating, I spoke to several pipe makers, one of whom said that it is impossible to predict which pipes will burn out, on the rare occasions that they do. A pipe with no visible flaw does, one with a flaw does not. If the briar is flawed, one would think it near the surface of the bowl as it is closest to the combusting heat, and the cake is nearer still.
I am not negating the role of the cake unprotecting the pipe, but I question how much protection it affords, especially as I've been reaming liberally for some time without a problem if for no other reason than that I lack the restraint that careful reaming requires. Thus I always smoke with some but not much cake, and in any case have had only one burnout.
Protecting pipes with suitable cake makes sense, but as it is the wood that cracks, often for no apparent reason, I have to wonder if the importance of cake is not a phenomena of obsessive pipe forum culture, which I have made part of my daily ritual for years.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I have a whole rack of thin walled pipes, most at or under 1/4" thickness, and even in my beginnings of smoking, I never burned out a pipe. And, of years of setting in the Briary's lounge I have never seen or heard of a pipe burning out. I have, however, seen picture posted by newbies, and heard stories. I always have to wonder if these really burned out as stated, or if people chug-a-lugged those pipes at such a furry or if they drove with the pipe hanging out the truck window till they burned out. I'm not calling total BS on all stories of burnout, but I have to wonder... some things are just hard to believe until you see it happen, IMO. ::

 

[sablebrush52]

I have yet to burn out a pipe. But some of that is just luck as burnouts can be caused by factors beyond my control. I don't know how much protection a cake offers, except that it probably does block the taste of heated wood, which many find unpalatable. Judging from the cross sectioned bowls that I've seen, the biggest protection against burnout or cracking of the chamber walls is learning to smoke slowly and cooly.

 

[sasquatch]

I have seen burnout occur where there was a flaw in the briar, hidden, and I have seen burnout occur where people were negligent in some way - smoking with a window open driving down the highway, and having a high burn temperature without knowing it. I had a customer flame a new pipe by trying to light the tobacco at the end of the bowl - there wasn't any left, the pipe had burned clean down. But he wanted those last few puffs.... sigh.
I have a tiny castello, it's like 1/8" thick, and rusticated to boot, so it has some very thin parts. I broke it in carefully, but I certainly don't assume it's about to burn out.
The pipe in question... looks like a LOT of cake to me, I think that thing could use a reaming.

 

[cigrmaster]

I have never had a burnout in a pipe. When I am done smoking I let the pipe cool over night. I then take a couple of soft pipe cleaners double them and then wipe the bowl. All of my pipes have a nice hard cake and I have never had cake break off. I believe the main reason for the hard cake in my pipes is the flakes that I smoke and letting them cool over night. That combo has worked well for me for a long time.
I should also say that I have never refurbished a pipe so dealing with a soft cake or more than a dimes worth is nothing I have experience with. Now that I am smoking some aromatics, I will be interested to see what type of cake they develop.

 

[luigi]

Thanks guys for your suggestions.

A cake has built itself, I don't pay much attention to it or try to build it, for me it's just a by-product which has to be removed from time to time. I think it does help to a better taste since you don't feel the briar taste in your mouth and take away some moisture. I will definitely remove it to eliminate the hole. Just to prevent any potential damage to the pipe I like.

I'm aware that it's important to smoke slowly and overheating is not a problem in this case.
I have another low-end pipe, which I don't care about, it had been smoked so hot in the past that a part of the mouthpiece was melt and now it barely passes a cleaner. I ream the cake when it starts to affect the taste, some parts of the chamber have gone away with the cake and honestly, I wish it burnt out to finally get rid of it but no, it's still providing a satisfying smoke just like any other pipe, the only difference is it needs about a week of rest and it looks very unattractive.
Thanks for your help, I learnt there are a "solid" and a "soft" cake and very likely neither of them will cause a burnout. To be on the safe side I'll get rid of it if chunks start to fall out but it's probably just a precaution.

 

[luigi]

Let me add that this Savinelli has never seen an aromatic. Does a ribbon cut give a softer cake than flakes? Is it a smoking technique that will make difference in the cake hardness? Maybe tamping? Or cleaning?

Probably all of that.

 

[sumusfumus]

Many thanks for all the helpful comments, and for the recommendations regarding the forming of a "soft cake".
Got it....prevent it, if possible, from forming....and never smoke hot, or overheat the briar bowls.
Thanks,

Frank

NYC

 

[jpmcwjr]

Does a ribbon cut give a softer cake than flakes? Is it a smoking technique that will make difference in the cake hardness? Maybe tamping? Or cleaning?

Probably all of that.

Yeah, probably! But in order I'd say that cleaning is the biggest factor. Sugar content next. Tobacco type next, but sugar content would be biggest component. Don't think the cut per se makes much difference, and smoking technique is the wild card- Too fast? Too slow? Too hot? Too cool? Would all make some difference, though no idea how to quantify.

 

[didimauw]

A Peterson that I had, refused to smoke right for me. I owned it for a few years, and couldn't get a decent smoke out of it. Wet and gurgly every time. I found out that the massive cake inn it, never hardened. After I easily scraped it out, and it smoked much better, and dryer.

 

[gkr1]

I like my cake less than 1mm. I think thick cake is counter productive and makes my pipes look nasty. lol

 

[judcole]

I had a nice Tim West burn out on me - went right through the bottom, after only a few bowls. This was an unsmoked estate, IIRC, that I got from Smokers' Haven. Had no trouble at all with a return. They told me, straight out, on the phone, that burnout is totally unpredictable.

 

[skaukatt]

I'm with gkr1 as I do not like any buildup such as depicted.
I would wipe that clean as discussed and leave as minimal cake as possible - but that's my preference. I used leave ash in my bowl, cover the bowl opening and shake up the ash to coat the walls of the bowl but I stopped and have since preferred a clean bowl. That is not to say that there is no "cake" per say, in my briars, just a minimal coating and I maintain it via the ways described above.