Caitlin Clark left off Women's Olympic Basketball Team.

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Jan 28, 2018
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It is certainly the case that Caitlin Clark has brought thousand of fans into women's basketball. The last two women's college final four have been exciting because of Clark and a number of other very skilled players. I have no doubt she will make the next few olympic teams and no one will say she doesn't deserve it.

However, I have to disagree with the estimable @hoosierpipeguy about Brittany Griner. I only became aware of her when she was imprisoned in Russia for forgetting that she had a small amount of pot that was legal in the US. A mistake on her part for sure but everyone understood that this was political retaliation for American support of Ukraine. When I saw Griner interviewed (on 60 Minutes I think), I was impressed. It was clear she was relieved and happy to be back in the USA and, if she ever had anti-American sentiments, certainly doesn't now.
Of course she changed her mind after the US negotiated her way out of Russia.
 

jpmcwjr

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Zeno Marx

Starting to Get Obsessed
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I've been critical of the Clark/WNBA situation and handling for a bit now, but this thread is coming off with some not-nice vibe.
 

AJL67

Lifer
May 26, 2022
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The question was not if males can regularly beat females in select sports. Not at all what I said!

I said there is high level achievement in some sports I like to watch, such as tennis, golf and European football. No one is compelled to watch what he doesn't care to watch.

Except maybe in prison where Big Bibba has the remote.
Yah but he's probably watching Basketball, football or baseball, i think soccer would even be a reach so im good with that :)
 
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jpmcwjr

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Yah but he's probably watching Basketball, football or baseball, i think soccer would even be a reach so im good with that :)
I love our football and am a long time SF Giants fan, and a former Warriors follower. However, the only women's football (soccer) I'll watch are the US team and the English team, and only in the semis and finals.
Women's basketball not at all, though watched two college games with CC.
Softball- no thanks.
Our football for women- no thank you
Women's Lacrosse- no. Its rules are 19th C.
Curling, bobsledding, downhill, slalom, jumping, yes, in limited quantities in season.
Hardly an exhaustive list, but time to stop.
 
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georged

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Mar 7, 2013
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Relevant only to a point made by another (that wasn't relevant to the post he replied to.)

Not just relevant to the Big Picture, but IS the Big Picture... The fundamental reason why women's sports (like basketball) only generate a fraction of the interest---and therefore revenue---that men's sports do.

People in general can be made to care about abstract things only in the case of extremes.

You might not give the slightest damn about rodeo bull riding, but you'll spend the minute it takes to see some previously unridden monster bull who bucked off 562 cowboys in a row finally get ridden successfully.

You might not care about archery, but if some guy managed to stack five arrows into each other at a tournament somewhere and it was caught on film, you'd probably watch it.

Ditto the highest pole vault ever made, the farthest baseball home run ever hit, the fastest quick draw ever recorded, and on and on.

The vast number of athletes "beneath" those Best Ever accomplishments don't move the needle in the mind of the general public, though.

And female athletics (in all but a handful of cases, such as distance swimming) translates into the best that women can do is nowhere near the best a sport can be played, or an event task accomplished. That's the domain of men (courtesy of Mother Nature).

Result? Disinterest in women's sports at a subconscious level. The fat part of the bell curve of potential observers simply don't care. Only devoted fans and enthusiasts do.
 

brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
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Not just relevant to the Big Picture, but IS the Big Picture... The fundamental reason why women's sports (like basketball) only generate a fraction of the interest---and therefore revenue---that men's sports do.

People in general can be made to care about abstract things only in the case of extremes.

You might not give the slightest damn about rodeo bull riding, but you'll spend the minute it takes to see some previously unridden monster bull who bucked off 562 cowboys in a row finally get ridden successfully.

You might not care about archery, but if some guy managed to stack five arrows into each other at a tournament somewhere and it was caught on film, you'd probably watch it.

Ditto the highest pole vault ever made, the farthest baseball home run ever hit, the fastest quick draw ever recorded, and on and on.

The vast number of athletes "beneath" those Best Ever accomplishments don't move the needle in the mind of the general public, though.

And female athletics (in all but a handful of cases, such as distance swimming) translates into the best that women can do is nowhere near the best a sport can be played, or an event task accomplished. That's the domain of men (courtesy of Mother Nature).

Result? Disinterest in women's sports at a subconscious level. The fat part of the bell curve of potential observers simply don't care. Only devoted fans and enthusiasts do.

George, surely you're not suggesting there are differences between men and women are you?

If a Supreme Court Justice cannot define what a woman is, how is it you claim to have such knowledge?
 

AJL67

Lifer
May 26, 2022
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Florida - Space Coast
George, surely you're not suggesting there are differences between men and women are you?

If a Supreme Court Justice cannot define what a woman is, how is it you claim to have such knowledge?
I love our football and am a long time SF Giants fan, and a former Warriors follower. However, the only women's football (soccer) I'll watch are the US team and the English team, and only in the semis and finals.
Women's basketball not at all, though watched two college games with CC.
Softball- no thanks.
Our football for women- no thank you
Women's Lacrosse- no. Its rules are 19th C.
Curling, bobsledding, downhill, slalom, jumping, yes, in limited quantities in season.
Hardly an exhaustive list, but time to stop.
You forgot Lingerie Football

Screen Shot 2024-06-10 at 7.07.56 PM.pngScreen Shot 2024-06-10 at 7.08.04 PM.png
 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
6,011
16,267
George, surely you're not suggesting there are differences between men and women are you?

If a Supreme Court Justice cannot define what a woman is, how is it you claim to have such knowledge?

Welcome to the "She's a witch!" factor...

Because humans have always been physically weak, survival in competition with other species on Earth required cleverness, deception, and groups. Teamwork.

So much so that NOT being part of a group/tribe was a death sentence for the first 99.99% of Man's existence. (i.e. from a couple of million years ago until technological development got us past the hunter-gatherer phase).

Result? The need to belong---to be part of a group---is a hard-wired part of human behavior as powerful as shelter, food, warmth, and sex. Those who did not have the need didn't survive long. Their "loner DNA" didn't get passed on.

Today, even though the Tribal Urge is no longer literally necessary to survive---food is grown is mass quantities and distributed without drama, predatory animals are kept away from settlements, and so forth---it still dominates daily affairs. We can't help it. Or stop it from happening.

Up to and including Supreme Court justices. To be branded a witch for not going along with your tribe will still get you burned at the stake (figuratively if no longer literally, at least in the developed world).

What if the thing they demand is provably and demonstrably absurd?

Doesn't matter. If they say jump, you jump.
 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
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May 12, 2015
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Carmel Valley, CA
Not just relevant to the Big Picture, but IS the Big Picture... The fundamental reason why women's sports (like basketball) only generate a fraction of the interest---and therefore revenue---that men's sports do.
Well, I dislike basketball with some exceptions. And women demanding equal pay in sports chaps my hide. When they draw the revenues, they will earn higher pay.

People in general can be made to care about abstract things only in the case of extremes.

You might not give the slightest damn about rodeo bull riding, but you'll spend the minute it takes to see some previously unridden monster bull who bucked off 562 cowboys in a row finally get ridden successfully.
I've watched bull riding at several levels, amateur to pro, and I think it's a feat when anyone completes a ride.
You might not care about archery, but if some guy managed to stack five arrows into each other at a tournament somewhere and it was caught on film, you'd probably watch it.
I'd watch archery if I happened on it, esp @ Olympics. Used to enjoy target shooting and going after rabbits- but never got a single one.
Ditto the highest pole vault ever made, the farthest baseball home run ever hit, the fastest quick draw ever recorded, and on and on.

All great feats, but I am not watching baseball, or track and field or any sport with my interest hanging on breaking a world record.
The vast number of athletes "beneath" those Best Ever accomplishments don't move the needle in the mind of the general public, though.

And female athletics (in all but a handful of cases, such as distance swimming) translates into the best that women can do is nowhere near the best a sport can be played, or an event task accomplished. That's the domain of men (courtesy of Mother Nature).

Result? Disinterest in women's sports at a subconscious level. The fat part of the bell curve of potential observers simply don't care. Only devoted fans and enthusiasts do.
Never argued against your points above. I've said that soccer, tennis and golf played by women pros is at a high level and I watch some of those contests.
 
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