Buying American tobaccos in Europe?

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paulfg

Lifer
Feb 21, 2016
1,573
2,951
Corfu Greece
What are you guys talking about, "seized and destroyed", "losing a package"?

... all that happens is that you have to pay a moderately expensive tax bill. It's not the end of the world - it just makes it only a little bit cheaper than buying the same thing domestically instead of far cheaper - although I'd rather avoid it if I can.
different countries have different laws,in some it is absolutely no import of tobacco products by post only a small amount as personal use if travelling.
It will be confiscated and destroyed if caught,not all is as it would require a lot of staff to inspect every parcel
 
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DanWil84

Lifer
Mar 8, 2021
1,691
12,644
40
The Netherlands (Europe)
What are you guys talking about, "seized and destroyed", "losing a package"?

... all that happens is that you have to pay a moderately expensive tax bill. It's not the end of the world - it just makes it only a little bit cheaper than buying the same thing domestically instead of far cheaper - although I'd rather avoid it if I can.
In my case you won't get a fine or tax bill, if it gets caught it will be destroyed as I have no license to import tobacco from outside the EU. Even from within the EU some shippers won't ship to the Netherlands. I have received some packages without a lot of problems from across the pond, but it's even risky when it's not coming from a tobacco seller outside of the EU.
 

condorlover1

Lifer
Dec 22, 2013
8,066
27,362
New York
Getting stuff from the U.S into Great Britain can be a little challenging. I got one through as a clean 'Home Run' to @simong the other month and I have one kicking around the system which will make it through since I am sending something that was originally made in the U.K and is described in nauseating detail as an item necessary for WW1 re-enactment on the customs form! I have also had considerable success sending things to other forum members in the U.K since anything I send out doesn't look like a commercial shipment so the revenue boys tend not to pay it much mind. Where you get into trouble is if you order industrial quantities of stuff. I send stuff to a friend on here who lives in Finland but I just wait for myself or my wife to visit Finland and we then bring it with us and then post it from the local Post Office. Coming in the opposite direction YMMV.
 

Anchovies

Might Stick Around
This gentleman is tryin gto avoid the hassle and import taxes on American tobacco. He can't so he is stuck with very expensive tobacco if he wants it.
Well ... very expensive American tobacco anyway. I can get the European stuff well enough. Which is also good enough. But I like variety. And also I understand taxes on cigarettes. But not so much on cigars and definitely not on pipes. The health costs to society and hugely different (as is the moisture content - and thus the weight, which they use to judge the tax).

Edit: I'm not trying to avoid taxes. Disclaimer.
 
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Anchovies

Might Stick Around
I haven't read the longer posts, but please be sure there's no talk of evading tax and duties.
No of course not. I'm not trying to avoid paying tax. I'm just trying to avoid giving away the surprise of the pipe tobacco I'm buying for my erm, girlfriend by getting a letter in the post detailing it. If only there were some way I could pay the tax without getting a notification in the mail. That's all.
 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,280
66
Sarasota Florida
I have watched Europe and their distribution methods for a long time now and I still don't get them. They are leaving so much money on the table that when the shit hits the fan, and their sales plummet, they will wish they had paid attention to getting product to the U.S.

I come from a sales background. There was no such thing as holding inventory back for any reason at all. If the thing was made, then it was supposed to be sold for as high a price as you could get. Simple supply and demand and yet Europe seems to have ignored this concept for decades. I see popular brands discontinued from European houses, never to be made again. I see the most popular brands with the worst supply lines.

Maybe this is a good example. In 1984 Dodge Motors came out with the dodge Caravan. No one had ever seen anything like it and the demand was crazy. The car came with a price listed on it, but we jacked that price up 1500.00 just because we could and people bought them that way.

Compare that with say Esoterica. They allegedly have only 6 employees and only make so much product till the next run. My brain cannot comprehend how they did not hire loads more people, buy more tobacco to make their popular blends and then sell all they could make. I guess this is why America's GDP is higher than all the other countries combined and that California has the 4th highest GDP in the world. Is it as simple as the Europeans just want their 4 day work weeks and 2 month summer vacations and us Americans are workaholics who want to make as much money as we can?

Yes I had my 55-65 hours a week in the car business and my 100 hour plus weeks when I opened my own businesses. And the Europeans still get free health care and we get squat, what a world. I will still take my workaholic ass over any other systems as I can make as much money as I am willing to work for.
 

unadoptedlamp

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 19, 2014
742
1,368
I have watched Europe and their distribution methods for a long time now and I still don't get them
I also do not fully understand, but we're dealing with some limited information. A very well known tobacco house (whose products are almost always sold out immediately) posts on this forum on occasion, and people have explicitly asked similar questions.

The response was a little bit cold. Perhaps it is a cultural thing.

It could also be that they're making enough money for their needs, so from that perspective, why bother to change if life is good? I can think of a few reasons why to ramp up production and get rolling even bigger, but can also think of quite a few for not doing so, depending on priorities.

I have my own business and spend time in Canada, Brazil and Germany each year, split nearly equally to chase the weather I like most. I like it, and I like taking three or more months off each year to enjoy things where I am at the moment. I'm not gloating. I'm just lucky, and I work hard for what I do have.

I could take on more work and make more money, but there is little point in doing so, except to have more money. There is a point where more money is just not useful, depending on what you like doing when not working and if you have a good work/life balance. I've met plenty of very wealthy people who have very shitty lives because they can only focus on a bank balance and feel the need to compete for more, despite there being many hundreds of thousands of people who will always have more. Fuelled by drugs and prescriptions, many times. Seems like hell to me.

I think that perhaps some of it is down to the "American" mindset of making as much dough as you possibly can, damn the hours, sacrifices, etc. No offence to Americans, obviously, it is just a different culture, broadly speaking, which very much rewards that behaviour. It is in the American DNA. It's also just different. Not better or worse, I'd say.

But yes, more from Esoterica and Gawith and the like! Get to work you lazy bastards! I really am on your side, but only because I'm not the one who needs to do the work and miss out on things I enjoy. Ha!

It's complicated, no doubt.
 

Anchovies

Might Stick Around
I have watched Europe and their distribution methods for a long time now and I still don't get them. They are leaving so much money on the table that when the shit hits the fan, and their sales plummet, they will wish they had paid attention to getting product to the U.S.

I come from a sales background. There was no such thing as holding inventory back for any reason at all. If the thing was made, then it was supposed to be sold for as high a price as you could get. Simple supply and demand and yet Europe seems to have ignored this concept for decades. I see popular brands discontinued from European houses, never to be made again. I see the most popular brands with the worst supply lines.

Maybe this is a good example. In 1984 Dodge Motors came out with the dodge Caravan. No one had ever seen anything like it and the demand was crazy. The car came with a price listed on it, but we jacked that price up 1500.00 just because we could and people bought them that way.

Compare that with say Esoterica. They allegedly have only 6 employees and only make so much product till the next run. My brain cannot comprehend how they did not hire loads more people, buy more tobacco to make their popular blends and then sell all they could make. I guess this is why America's GDP is higher than all the other countries combined and that California has the 4th highest GDP in the world. Is it as simple as the Europeans just want their 4 day work weeks and 2 month summer vacations and us Americans are workaholics who want to make as much money as we can?

Yes I had my 55-65 hours a week in the car business and my 100 hour plus weeks when I opened my own businesses. And the Europeans still get free health care and we get squat, what a world. I will still take my workaholic ass over any other systems as I can make as much money as I am willing to work for.
There are some reasons I can think of. Maybe they're not the right reasons, and maybe they're not good reasons, depending on your perspective, but I can imagine some.

In the United States it seems that making money is the alter on which all else is sacrificed. Not a judgement, just an observation. The attitude in Europe is slightly different, although making money is still important.

For example, I work for a small games studio in Stockholm. And they are explicitly trying to stay small, even though we have been enjoying a few successful releases back-to-back and hiring new people. The policy is that if we ever get too big and successful, we're going to break up the company into two smaller, independent studios.

Why? Because there's such a thing as too big. And also, believe it or not, too much money. The bigger and richer the company, the more generic, cautious the product. But that's not all. It's also usually a less fun place to work (and life quality is just as, if not more, important than financial success - what's the point of making stacks of cash if you were comfortable and happier before?), and lastly, waste goes through the roof.

For example, in my previous job (also a games studio, but a huge, rich, ultra-successful one), there was entire department of people who basically walked around with a cup of coffee, made power-point slides and had "important sounding" discussions using a lot of marketing and industry buzz-words around the water-cooler.

I have absolutely no idea what these people did. But we have zero of them, let alone an entire department, in my new job, and I have noticed zero difference in the quality of our product. God knows what it cost to pay them all to stand around and look important. I was once flown across the country and put up in a 4-star hotel in order to attend a meeting where I was asked one question to which my answer was, "yes". That could have been a 5-second phone call or even a phone message.

You might say (and you might be right), "well, they just got big in the wrong way". Sure. But in my experience, companies over a certain size tend to have a mind of their own and they always go that way. Too many cooks spoil the broth.

The product was also far more bland, generic, risk-averse, politically-correct and less fun.

Working there was more rigid, less free, less fun, more suffocated with bureaucracy and superfluous opinions.

And that is not the only example. That pretty much described every large company I worked for in every country (I've worked in three different ones).

Does this translate to tobacco production? Maybe. Maybe not. Is there a better way to do it? Maybe.

Long story short: I can see why some people are willing to sacrifice making more money for other benefits.
 

Ag®o

Lifer
Nov 14, 2021
1,222
14,108
Italy
Going back to talking about tobacco, I live in Italy where it is not possible to send / receive tobacco, not even shipments within the territory are granted due to stupid medieval laws linked to the fiscal monopoly.
Those who do it, do it at their own risk, the consequences are severe, both in terms of sanctions and judicial problems (complaint, court, lawyers, etc.) I am lucky enough to live near Switzerland, thanks to a dear friend who lives there I have the opportunity to receive tobacco from countries where it can be shipped.
I always try to follow the rules, always with 250gr of admitted quantity, sometimes they arrive without duties and sometimes with duties, I think it is at the discretion of the customs officer who is there at that time, since the differences are also in the packages coming from the same seller.
The packages from SP and PT arrive quickly, those from WCC and Steve F. instead make strange rounds, probably because they are entrusted to different couriers (Globalpost etc.) before arriving at the USPS centers.
Easier to receive from Germany, where shipments are generally entrusted to DHL which does the customs clearance operations on its own, and if you stick to the rules of quantity allowed, the costs are very low.
I have never lost a package to date.
And of course, Switzerland is not in the EU bureaucratically speaking.
 
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jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,739
27,336
Carmel Valley, CA
Anchovies: Please do not lump all Americans into the same mold! Same as I wouldn't say "All Swedes do or think thus....."

On a more conversational note, I was lucky enough to be in Stockholm just before Christmas and enjoyed a trip around the harbor dinner cruise, during which we were served anchovies as well as four different types of herring.
 

pauls456

Starting to Get Obsessed
Aug 19, 2020
240
478
60
Tucson, Arizona
Between the exorbitant taxes, the decaying mail system, and the increasingly complicated and capricious import and customs regulations, things are becoming increasingly difficult. As an American, I have given up trying to buy European tobacco from European sellers. Its also become quite difficult the other way: A European friend of mine asked me to bring him 5 pounds of bulk Mac Baran tobacco when we get together in Chicago, as that would be far cheaper and easier for than him than buying it at home.
 
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Anchovies

Might Stick Around
Anchovies: Please do not lump all Americans into the same mold! Same as I wouldn't say "All Swedes do or think thus....."

On a more conversational note, I was lucky enough to be in Stockholm just before Christmas and enjoyed a trip around the harbor dinner cruise, during which we were served anchovies as well as four different types of herring.
Certainly not!

I was talking in broad cultural strokes. Definitely not about "every American". America produces perhaps the the widest and most diverse and most friendly and welcoming population of people in history. I would never intentionally paint all with the same brush.

In the same vein, what I said was not intending to derogatory at all. Not any more than "Europeans don't care about money and they're all stuck-up and unfriendly", which would be equally untrue if applied to every person.

But still there is a slight difference in mentality the has deep cultural roots. The USA is a nation founded largely on self-sufficient, can-do, frontier type folks. And they value their independence and their freedom and respect those that are successful in enterprise and business. It's not a bad thing. It's just a bit different to Europe. And again, very broad stokes. Definitely not "everybody" ... that would just be silly.