Briar Quality in Dunhill

[kenbarnes]

Maybe Ken will play a game with us: three blocks here Ken, which one do you want?

I'll play!

The block on the right hand side has quite wide grain although, sometimes this wide grain can be depicted as 'angel hair' which, if stained and finished well, can look quite nice. This type of block can sometimes be pretty clean when cutting it i.e. not many flaws coming up.

The block in the middle probably has some nice grain on the 'front' of the block i.e. on the right hand side but staggered grain on the left. I would suspect that it has much tighter grain than the first one. In order to produce a straight grain from this block, I would need to tilt the block when cutting it in order to 'straighten up the grain'. You can see that the grain runs diagonally/at an angle. This block requires some cutting skill to bring the best grain out.

The block on the left is most probably the finest of the three. It may well have some really nice tight grain on the left side and nice tight grain on the right side too. It may need some subtle tilting to pull back/align the grain still further ready for turning. I would cut this block slightly 'off the grain' so that when it is turned the grain would return in a spectacular way. This type of high grade block can be fraught with danger (flaws running through the block along the grain, and needs some real attention when cutting it. Whilst all three blocks have the potential to be finely grained pipes if cut well, this block could be something really special.

Did you want me to say which saw mill supplied which blocks?

 

[saltedplug]

I asked a pipe guy about "reading" grain from the surface of the block and he replied emphatically that this wasn't possible. But in the back of my mind I thought that this must be possible as the maker is going to want to get the best from the block, and even if uncut, he would find trying to read it irresistible. Why can't the outer be at least in some sense predictive of the inner?

 

[sasquatch]

Completely impossible to read a block from the top, it can only be that Ken's got lucky so far.
Here's the side reveal, where we learn that indeed, the left block is tighter than the others, the right block showing only big whispy streaks of grain, and the middle, while having reasonably good grain, is cut pretty crooked with respect to it.

The bottom of the blocks shows all this even more:

The right block is the best cut, nearly perfect, but not the tightest grain for a smooth - it will blast impeccably. The middle block will make an interesting pipe and with work still possibly a well-oriented one, but it will take a bit of trickery. The left block is a nice cut but the growth is a little twistier - still the block of choice and ought to make a very fine looking piece. But almost all this info was available at a glance at the crust, to someone with experience.
Continue if you will Ken - I'll give you a hint too - each of the three is from a different mill. Where are the blocks from??

 

[sasquatch]

Frontal too.... again bearing out everything Ken saw at a glance.

Ken and I haven't colluded in any way here, he could have stayed quiet, but the truth is, he knew exactly what he was looking at and his assessment was a low risk thing.
So far we have talked about grain. Actual physical density is another thing, and tiny little flavor nuances another.

 

[dmcmtk]

Sas and Ken, this is great, just sitting back and reading the back and forth! :D

 

[kenbarnes]

I think I was sort of joking about which saw mill each came from and I doubt that I will get it.

The left one (the nicest prime cut one) possibly a 'Super block' from Mimmo? The middle one from Jaume Hom and the one on the right from Manno

 

[bluegrassbrian]

I like this game. :clap:

 

[sablebrush52]

Thread of the decade! Why am I not surprised that Ken can see in the dark? I mean, his father ran Charatan and Ken grew up in the pipe making business. He's been widely acknowledged as one of the finest cutters ever to grace the field and he co-founded Upshall. What would he know about reading blocks? :worship:

 

[Civil War]

I agree, "Best thread in months". I've read the posts several times.

 

[crashthegrey]

Suddenly I won't be surprised if the mills are correct as well.

 

[sasquatch]

Well reasoned and very close, Ken. Left Block is from Carlo at Calabria, middle is Jaume, right is a Mimmo grade 3.
I wasn't kidding when I earlier said that if you have the money, the cutters have the goods - I happened to get that block from Carlo, I could have got it from Mimmo or Makis too. And it's about a 50 dollar block from any of those guys.
Mimmo grades a little differently than some, he has a super grade, a very good grade, a blast grade, and a "try your luck" grade. The block pictured is a #3 Blast grade, and it is cut just perfectly as many of Mimmo's are. Grain density isn't there, so the grade is lower. Usually the rings on this low-density wood are spread out more too, so the blasting depth is better than on a really tight growth.
How will it smoke?
In my experience, all these vendors have wood that smokes fine. I might.... might... be able to guess a mill or a region on a 1st smoke of a pipe. Sometimes the greek blocks have an earthiness that the Italian ones tend not to. But after 5 smokes? I couldn't telly you a thing. I've got pipes that are very dense/heavy and which smoke great, and I've got pipes which are very light for their size and which... smoke great. I tend to think that briar is NOT the biggest factor in how a pipe will smoke. Lots of high-grade guys will offer the mantra "The stem is the pipe." Certainly true in the case of the old British makes - Dunhill, Sasieni, Barling, GBD etc... all superior stem internals, and all terrific smokers. But the idea that Dunhill or anyone has a block-smelling dog or some kind of x-ray machine or that they twirl the blocks above their head at midnight to make them smoke better (at least in the northern hemisphere) is all goofy. It's briar, some is good, some is full of pits and holes and sand and spots of washy grain etc.
What would Dunhill make with the blocks I posted? A DR, a Root, and a Shell, in that order, most likely. But any of them could be firewood half way through, and the Grade 3 block might render a nice smooth all the same (it did, if I remember right).

 

[warren]

A fascinating exhibition! Thank you gentlemen.

 

[saltedplug]

I love it when the pro's show up and post because at last the amateurs, certainly me, get solid information instead of the stultifying exchange of opinion that characterizes most threads. Is it fun to post like this? Sure, I've been doing it for 15 years. But is it substantive? No.
So along comes the OP who asks:

I have read a lot about briar quality in Dunhill, and I know some fans prefer the older Dunhills to the newer ones.

When I read this I want to scream "you're an idiot!" Another Dunhill lemming being lead by the nose by a very effective marketing strategy over 100 years old. As the pro's have demonstrated, although there are differences in grain, it's anybody's guess what briar is going to make a pipe smoke well.
On a similar note a pipe seller had three pipes by a Chinese wunderkind on sale, but now there is only one. Of the sold one was priced at $3500.00 and the other at $5500.00. Though I confess to not being able to see pipes as art, I find such excessive valuations irritating, in the case of Dunhill, and obscene in the case of the wunderkind, who trained with the Danish names and wrote a book about the Ivarssons that sells for $150.00. He also is very successful in traditional calligraphy, seal making, and painting.
So he does well in other fields and this justifies these prices? Or is it the training? The book? I'd like some proof that he is indeed human. Maybe if we got it this would feel different. Maybe a pair of shorts with skid marks; maybe a video of him beating his dog. Even better if he's speak 'merican. I mean, what's this fella doing in our country going by such a fancy name in Chinese? This is America! Speak the language, you drip. Call yourself "Jerry" or something.

 

[warren]

"Chinese wunderkind" apparently has a good grasp of his target market. The price seems excessive to your wallet but, there are people who can, with ease, afford such an expenditure and happily do so. Such bigotry is unseemly.

 

[sasquatch]

Yeah, it's a free market. I have many talks about pipes, value, pricing, buyers.... it's a funny market. I do a sort "value" handmade, assuming that there's lots and lots of guys who will buy a 300 dollar pipe (over and over too) if it's good enough. I make the occassional pipe that's more expensive, and I try to make it objectively better when I do, but no matter what I do, I'll have certain people telling me I'm too cheap, and certain people telling me I'm too expensive.
If you don't like a dude's pricing, don't buy his pipes. It's that easy.

 

[rmpeeps]

All in all this thread has great information and I appreciate that it comes from professionals.

 

[sablebrush52]

So, I have a question for the pros. After you buy your briar, how long do you season it before shaping, and do you go through more than one seasoning pass before you finish the pipe? The reason I'm asking this is that it used to be part of the process that some makers used. This is an image of Barling's bowl seasoning and storage room. The bowls have been turned, but not finished.

My understanding, from talking with some of the old timers, was that the successive seasonings were thought to benefit dimensional stability despite changes in environment. Think of it as, the fit between the stem and shank will remain stable through use, and a shank crack is not likely to develop. As has been pointed out, there's wood. But there's also process, and that can make a difference in how well the wood performs.

 

[jvnshr]

Ken and sasquatch no matter what, you two are going to heaven for sure. Thanks for the great thread. :worship:
Other than that, I had to edit out some posts from this thread (the posts that has been removed either were 'unnecessary' or related to those 'unnecessary' posts). Let's leave our personal preferences aside and enjoy this legendary thread.

 

[paulfg]

just wanted to add my thanks to Ken & Sas

thanks for a great thread

 

[jvnshr]

Watching Ken talking about pipes/briar is like watching Ronnie O'Sullivan playing snooker.