Big Dollar Pipes vs Lower Priced Pipes

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Dec 3, 2021
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No, it wasn't Bose. I seem to remember that the maker's name started with an "M".
Most likely, it was Mark Levinson—they were known for some pretty high ticket gear with much better than average sound. After he sold off the brand bearing his name, he started a company called Cello. The listening room at the Cello showroom was surreal. While it wasn’t allowed to be completely soundproof because of fire code, it was very close, and the sound treatments in the room made the room so neutral that there was virtually no difference hearing a voice four feet away as compared to ten feet—that was bizarre.
 
May 8, 2017
1,660
1,859
Sugar Grove, IL, USA
While this topic is generally one I avoid because, frankly, I'm tired of it. However, the OP has asked the question in a way which is different from what I've heard before in that he's essentially asking about basket pipes vs name brand factory pipes. This isn't a question of $150 vs $800 or more, it's $35 vs $100 or so.

At that level, when speaking about unsmoked, new pipes, I would definitely steer the OP to the higher-priced pipe. Generally speaking, any Peterson, Chacom, Ropp, or Savinelli, even in that low range, will be a reasonably well-made pipe. Some pretty decent Ropps are priced under $100, IIRC.

On the other hand, most basket pipes I've inspected have cheap finishes and very poor stems that have tiny draft holes which make passing even a standard pipe cleaner difficult. This narrow smoke channel is usually overly restrictive, likely resulting in poor smoking characteristics. Sure, you'll stumble across a winner now and then, but the odds are not in your favor. I fully support buying cobs, but skip the basket pipes.
 

Papamique

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 11, 2020
793
3,971
I guess I'm a snob when it comes to technique, but only because developing that technique opens up more possibilities from the blends that I smoke. And I will admit to having preferences with regard to blenders. If that make me a snob then it's good to be a snob.

+1. Preferences and opinions we all have. It’s how they are used. Pipestud wrote an EXCELLENT blog on this here: https://www.pipestud.com/who-are-the-real-tobacco-snobs/
 
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sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
21,004
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Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
+1. Preferences and opinions we all have. It’s how they are used. Pipestud wrote an EXCELLENT blog on this here: https://www.pipestud.com/who-are-the-real-tobacco-snobs/
I just read Pipestud's blog and it has some good points, and it has some points with which I don't agree. I'm definitely in his definition of being a pipe snob because I can think of better ways to spend excess change than $1500 on a fabled tin of "whatsis" and I actually do spend my spare change on things that I believe to be more helpful to people, like preserving open land for public access, quite a lot of it. Proud to be a snob!
 

Papamique

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 11, 2020
793
3,971
Well Jesse, all I can say is wear it proudly! I can think of better ways FOR ME, to spend MY $1500 too but then again it wouldn’t be preserving land. I won’t tell you how to spend your money Jesse and if I do smack me would ya? 😂
 
My idea of a tobacco snob is the person or persons who think that spending more than $10 – $20 on a tin of tobacco is a criminal act and will justify their thinking by offering less than flattering adjectives about those who do.

Crap, I was all happy and content thinking I was a snob for thinking that cheap corncob pipes are tacky pieces of junk. Now, I have to rethink all of this.

Damn, being a snob is so difficult. puffy
 

Searock Fan

Lifer
Oct 22, 2021
2,225
6,094
Southern U.S.A.
Most likely, it was Mark Levinson—they were known for some pretty high ticket gear with much better than average sound. After he sold off the brand bearing his name, he started a company called Cello. The listening room at the Cello showroom was surreal. While it wasn’t allowed to be completely soundproof because of fire code, it was very close, and the sound treatments in the room made the room so neutral that there was virtually no difference hearing a voice four feet away as compared to ten feet—that was bizarre.
Back when I had a high end system and anyone would ask me if it were Bose, I used to cringe!!! Bose is the king when it comes to marketing. They convince the rube on the street that their stuff is the best, then sell them mid-fi crap for twice what it's worth.

Mark Levinson didn't exactly sell off the brand bearing his name, he was forced out of the company because he was such a pain to work with.

The Cello equipment Levinson made sounded very good but I always found it silly that he refused to equip it with remote control. He said it would degrade the sound... what nonsense.

I'm curious did you visit the Cello showroom in NYC or Houston? puffy
 
Dec 3, 2021
5,557
48,316
Pennsylvania & New York
Back when I had a high end system and anyone would ask me if it were Bose, I used to cringe!!! Bose is the king when it comes to marketing. They convince the rube on the street that their stuff is the best, then sell them mid-fi crap for twice what it's worth.

Mark Levinson didn't exactly sell off the brand bearing his name, he was forced out of the company because he was such a pain to work with.

The Cello equipment Levinson made sounded very good but I always found it silly that he refused to equip it with remote control. He said it would degrade the sound... what nonsense.

I'm curious did you visit the Cello showroom in NYC or Houston? puffy

The New York showroom—my friend ended up buying the Cello Audio Palette.
 

K.E. Powell

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 20, 2022
610
2,263
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West Virginia
The topic of snobbery is an interesting one. To me, the classical definition of a snob, i.e., that person whose inflated sense of self-importance stems from hardline class distinctions and affiliations, is the one that remains the most useful. It's why during the 19th century snobbery was so often associated with the consumption of art or goods that were at one time the province of wealthy classes, because recent advances and changes in society allowed for the burgeoning middle class/bourgeoisie to enjoy something that was previously a signifier of aristocracy or refinement exclusive to genteel landowners. For them, treating the "middling sorts" as pale imitators was not just a criticism on their tastes and priorities, but their moral and intellectual capacities. It's why snobs are so loathed, and (most) rich people take care to avoid looking like snobs these days. (The idea of a 18th century aristocrat bragging about cutting his own hair would have been borderline unthinkable at that time. Today, however, billionaires routinely bolster their PR efforts by humble-bragging about having shitty haircuts and driving Subarus.)

Interestingly, where snobbery was a pejorative once used by one group to mock an outside group, it now seems far more common that it is a pejorative used within a group to chastise its own members. Practically every community and hobby has its gatekeepers and snobs, the latter of which earn scorn by asserting their way of engaging with said hobby is the superior way. The distinction, then, is not one of class or morality, but of knowledge and its application. To put it simply: they are saying they are smarter and more capable than you. And boy, does that ruffle some feathers!

Unfortunately, to avoid this charge, many will overcorrect and adopt an "all is subjective, man *big bong rip noise*" attitude, and Christ, is that boring and useless. But it is understandable, and much, especially in pipe tobacco, is indeed subjective. But there is a good deal that is objective, and moreover, pussyfooting around how we think and feel about our hobby cripples our ability to engage with it with others effectively. One should fear being arrogant, but never fear being thought of as arrogant. Just my (characteristically verbose) two cents.
 

tmcg81

Lifer
May 8, 2020
1,037
16,236
NJ
I'd love to have a high end artisan pipe or a Castello or something like that. At this point in my life, it's financially irresponsible. I have plenty of pipes that I really like. The most I spent was however much a Peterson System Deluxe costs, and I ended up trading it in because I didn't like it. I'm extremely happy with all my pipes and I don't have any that cost more than $130-150. At the end of the day it's a piece of wood that you're essentially setting on fire. Get whatever seems cool.
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,960
14,357
Humansville Missouri
This last summer I bought on eBay a ten dollar unsmoked basket pipe that was the worst finished briar pipe I’ve ever bought.

It wasn’t badly constructed, nor made with poor briar, but it looked dipped into a pail of brown varnish.

D2162499-5E34-4F30-AECF-F99436BF88CF.jpegEFE81445-12B0-4442-B3C9-FD8143881BE1.jpegE8B72E8B-2EF7-4087-A922-36A96A01A13C.jpeg

After I stripped the varnish and oiled it with grapeseed oil I realized why the maker varnished it. I’ve never seen so many shallow pits in the briar.

But nobody sets up tooling to make badly finished large oval shanked saddle bit chimney pipes. This was a reject, a pipe sold in a basket somewhere for a song.

Smokes as good, as a Five Star Lee.
 

mngslvs

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jan 24, 2019
269
577
Yarmouth, Maine
Around 10 years ago I began to buy more pipes. I only had a half dozen at that time, but felt compelled to buy more. After all, growing up in the U.S. means being bombarded with messages that more is better. Consumerism. So I slowly began collecting pipes, though I didn’t think of it as collecting at the time. Just more willing to piss away money on things I didn’t need, but wanted. Desire. The lure of pipes and tobacco is sorta mysterious. For me, beyond the taste of the tobacco, it links to a tradition. Coming from a splintered family, that is psychologically grounding. Esthetics also play a big part. Just as I consider esthetics when buying a car, a pipe or any other object has an esthetic dimension. Of course this is entirely subjective, but it does enter into the smoking experience. For me, not everyone I suppose. Other factors : I used to sit with my grandfather as he smoked ; if it weren’t for that maybe I never would have started with pipes.
Anyway as I began growing my pipes, I pestered Marty Pulvers for info on how to discern quality. With certain other consumer goods, cars for example, it is easier to sort out what accounts for differences in price. Finally (in exasperation ?) he said “Nobody knows anything”. I’m sure what he meant by that was that pipe quality cannot be easily related to price or brand. And so began my trial and error collection. Usually I buy estates averaging around $200 to $300, though occasionally much less. I’m constantly weeding out, sending pipes to SP for credit, sacrificing a lot each year in a constant pursuit of a better smoke.
A few “interesting” estate pipes:
A Dunhill Shell circa 1966. That model highly recommended by a certain M.P. Tasted really strange, and I don’t think it was a ghost. Got rid of it.
A vintage Barling, $325 ?, just never smoked worth a damn.
A GBD with unusual lines, gorgeous pipe. Had a replacement stem. Smoked it once. Never had a pipe smoke So hot and So wet, got rid of it immediately.
A Cavicchi bent brandy, without question the most beautiful pipe I’ve ever owned, with striking straight grain all around. Could have won some kind of design award. Had a bite, a really sharp taste. Thought maybe if I smoke it twenty times this will go away, but lost patience and got rid of it. I don’t feel like wasting 20 smokes.
A GBD Dublin, one with the gold ellipse, a somewhat rare find I think. Asked the vendor to make sure it would pass a pipe cleaner. She did, and mailed it. Turned out she tested it apart, not together (brilliant). That pipe would not pass a pipe cleaner no way, no how, bend the tip and twirl, say a mantra, Nothing worked. Returned for refund. The only pipe I’ve ever encountered with that problem. Maybe an easy repair ? Don’t know.
A recent purchase, an Oldenkott for $60, the grain is unremarkable but in every other way is just outstanding. Great smoker. Go figure.
So in the end, what’s my point ? Not every pipe you buy is going to please, regardless of price. And there are mysterious factors that cause some pipes to taste “off”, at least in my experience. You may know some reasons for this in a general way, but each pipe is different.
I have a couple pipes – a GBD Canadian and a DonCarlos ring grain billiard – that from the first two draws taste outstanding. Why ? Beats me.
 
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Searock Fan

Lifer
Oct 22, 2021
2,225
6,094
Southern U.S.A.
The New York showroom—my friend ended up buying the Cello Audio Palette.
I had one of these for a while and the "tone controls" worked well, especially on older recordings. No degrading of sound quality I could hear. Got rid of it simply because I got tired of having to get up and walk across the room just to adjust the volume or something. You might find it interesting how I got it... I was friends with the sales director of Cello. He told me they were closing their store in Moscow because they were being extorted by the Russian mob. They closed the store and took all their equipment back to the states, did some mods and sold it. Mine came from Moscow and he gave me a good buy on it. I actually sole it for a profit.

Every time I talk about this stuff I feel guilty... this is the wrong forum. puffy

cellopalette35506.jpg
 
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Dec 3, 2021
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I had one of these for a while and the "tone controls" worked well, especially on older recordings. No degrading of sound quality I could hear. Got rid of it simply because I got tired of having to get up and walk across the room just to adjust the volume or something. You might find it interesting how I got it... I was friends with the sales director of Cello. He told me they were closing their store in Moscow because they were being extorted by the Russian mob. They closed the store and took all their equipment back to the states, did some mods and sold it. Mine came from Moscow and he gave me a good buy on it. I actually sole it for a profit.

Every time I talk about this stuff I feel guilty... this is the wrong forum. puffy

View attachment 187081
It really was an impressive piece of gear—it truly did seem transparent, without any degradation of the signal. I’m reasonably sure my friend still has his, among his many systems/homes. He has built at least one custom audio room that is on par with what @sablebrush52 described earlier. It will be awhile before I get my system up and running at the house, but, I did have the electrician create a dedicated line for my system.
 

Searock Fan

Lifer
Oct 22, 2021
2,225
6,094
Southern U.S.A.
It really was an impressive piece of gear—it truly did seem transparent, without any degradation of the signal. I’m reasonably sure my friend still has his, among his many systems/homes. He has built at least one custom audio room that is on par with what @sablebrush52 described earlier. It will be awhile before I get my system up and running at the house, but, I did have the electrician create a dedicated line for my system.
You might need the extra power. Not to seem like I'm playing oneupmanship, but when we had this house built I had 2 40amp outlets put in the wall right behind where the Levinson amps would go. They're marked by having chrome covers. The system is gone now so there they sit, unused and broken hearted. :(
 
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