Beatle-mania

[HawkeyeLinus]

. . . I'm surprised a thread on a subject as trivial as pop music and pop music reputations has generated more heat than light.

Opinion is opinion, but starting a thread with trite criticisms of the Beatles and calling their career as a group a "flash in the pan" without any real context or factual basis really wasn't intended to shed light - just hoping for some heat and though you've declared it so, there really isn't much, lol.

As for "light", plenty of accurate background info to be found.

As for inaccurate - when did McCartney sell the rights to his songs, to whom and for how much? That's not opinion, it's just some of the "light" you've covered up a bit with an apples to grapefruit comparison.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

Opinion is opinion, but starting a thread with trite criticisms of the Beatles and calling their career as a group a "flash in the pan" without any real context or factual basis really wasn't intended to shed light…

100% agree here. Starting a flamethrower thread like this and then claiming to not want to argue is just strange.

Here is something I remembered that some might find interesting, and that goes to show the lengths the Beatles were willing to go to hone their craft.

I remember reading an interview with (I think) McCartney and him telling a story of how they were all together playing (very early days) and someone couldn’t remember a certain chord shape. George says, I know a fellow across town who knows this chord. So they load up on a city bus, guitars in hand, and go to this fellow’s house, knock on the door, and ask about the chord. He shows them, and they head back home to keep writing/playing.

To me that is such a cool story of what people (pre-internet etc) were willing to do to learn. A very no-excuses kind of approach. It’s no wonder they became so successful.

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

100% agree here. Starting a flamethrower thread like this and then claiming to not want to argue is just strange.

Here is something I remembered that some might find interesting, and that goes to show the lengths the Beatles were willing to go to hone their craft.

I remember reading an interview with (I think) McCartney and him telling a story of how they were all together playing (very early days) and someone couldn’t remember a certain chord shape. George says, I know a fellow across town who knows this chord. So they load up on a city bus, guitars in hand, and go to this fellow’s house, knock on the door, and ask about the chord. He shows them, and they head back home to keep writing/playing.

To me that is such a cool story of what people (pre-internet etc) were willing to do to learn. A very no-excuses kind of approach. It’s no wonder they became so successful.

Great story! Reading about all of their roots as children, Lennon's "The Quarrymenn", how things got put together and all things about their process and true genius at writing music is fascinating and . . . sure, not for everyone. They didn't just "happen" - hard work, hard work, hard work.

 

[Gimlet]

100% agree here. Starting a flamethrower thread like this and then claiming to not want to argue is just strange.

Here is something I remembered that some might find interesting, and that goes to show the lengths the Beatles were willing to go to hone their craft.

I remember reading an interview with (I think) McCartney and him telling a story of how they were all together playing (very early days) and someone couldn’t remember a certain chord shape. George says, I know a fellow across town who knows this chord. So they load up on a city bus, guitars in hand, and go to this fellow’s house, knock on the door, and ask about the chord. He shows them, and they head back home to keep writing/playing.

To me that is such a cool story of what people (pre-internet etc) were willing to do to learn. A very no-excuses kind of approach. It’s no wonder they became so successful.

A flamethrower...? Because I don't get the mythology around an old pop band that disbanded 50 years ago? Really???

I don't understand the continued fascination with the Beatles. You do. That's about it really...

 

[Sam Gamgee]

A flamethrower...? Because I don't get the mythology around an old pop band that disbanded 50 years ago? Really???

I don't understand the continued fascination with the Beatles. You do. That's about it really...

Yes, flamethrower. It would be like getting on here and claiming to “not get” The Lord of the Rings or something dearly beloved to millions. You’re going to cause some sparks. No real harm done, but that’s just how it works.

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

When Dylan sold the rights to his work he achieved over three time the price that McCartney got for his. I think that's a fair reflection. Paul Simon made more than five times McCartney's price. Again, about right.

LOL, as I said, misleading and intentionally so.

Of course, measuring significance of artists by what may or may not have been sold in different eras has nothing to do with their place in music history and McCartney, Dylan and Simon are all giants.

McCartney never sold "his work" with the Beatles. In '69 because of serious and ongoing financial problems the company that had publishing rights to the most significant Beatles songs was sold (McCartney and Lennon had, at the time, an artificially enhanced stake in the company, but in reality had been minority stakeholders) and for not all that much. Michael Jackson famously ended up with the rights in a $47.5 million purchase (of not just the Beatles music) but he didn't buy that from Paul. Then the sale of 1/2 to Sony and then the remainder 1/2 sold out of Jackson's estate. McCartney ended up suing Sony to get his rights back and there was a settlement.

Apple paid $400 million just to distribute Beatles music, the Beatles catalog alone is estimated at $1 billion in worth, so yep, dwarfs the value of anything Dylan or Simon - money wise they aren't in the same universe, and McCartney regained control of what he'd lost. McCartney's work post-Beatles has more market value than Dylan or Simon. Means nothing to me in terms of enjoying their contributions, but does to you, so may as well get it right.

 

[pappymac]

Being 70 years old and looking back at the Beatles, I look on how they transformed themselves and music in the 1960s. They started out as a good Pop band and as they got older, their music also grew and changed.

I personally like the music the Beatles made before Lennon met Yoko Ono. In my opinion, that was when the music started changing and was also when the internal problems with the band began.

 

[Cloozoe]

I reiterate; when the sound of the Lennon/McCartney harmonies, due especially to the timbre of Lennon's voice, hit the world, it was revelatory. The rest is details and icing on the cake. Of course, I'm a musician, not an amateur sociologist, so my take is inevitably different than those of the obviously non-musicians that comprise the entirety of this thread (apologies to those of you who took clarinet lessons for a year or two in grade school).

The "I never much liked the Beatles; now Chicago - there was a great band!" posts remind me of watching Ray Charles on tv long ago with my wonderful but tone-deaf father, who was so smart and accustomed to knowing almost everything that it didn't occur to him that music criticism wasn't his bailiwick: "They say this guy's a genius; I don't see it"

Dumbest thing you ever said, Dad; RIP

 

[Sam Gamgee]

I reiterate; when the sound of the Lennon/McCartney harmonies, due especially to the timbre of Lennon's voice, hit the world, it was revelatory. The rest is details and icing on the cake. Of course, I'm a musician, not an amateur sociologist, so my take is inevitably different than those of the obviously non-musicians that comprise the entirety of this thread (apologies to those of you who took clarinet lessons for a year or two in grade school).

The "I never much liked the Beatles; now Chicago - there was a great band!" posts remind me of watching Ray Charles on tv long ago with my wonderful but tone-deaf father, who was so smart and accustomed to knowing almost everything that it didn't occur to him that music criticism wasn't his bailiwick: "They say this guy's a genius; I don't see it"

Dumbest thing you ever said, Dad; RIP

I am a guitarist and have enjoyed the Beatles my whole life, as I’ve said earlier here. A couple years ago, for some unknown reason, I decided to get a Beatles songbook that contained all the songs they actually wrote.

When I started going through that book and seeing not just the chords they utilized but how they strung them together, I was genuinely blown away, and my admiration for them as musicians grew tenfold. Many of the chords they used were brand new to me, even after playing guitar for 30 years.

Again, realizing they were pretty much untrained, technically, and had no websites to look up chords, etc, it’s almost incredible that they did what they did. Musically, it’s nothing short of fascinating.

Did they sing as beautifully as the Everlys? As powerfully as Roy Orbison? All that is subjective. But what they did musically/technically will likely always be part of the canon of western pop music.

 

[Cloozoe]

Did they sing as beautifully as the Everlys? As powerfully as Roy Orbison?...

I know
It's only rock n roll
But I like it

Got its own criteria and while there are some technically good singers, it's not a requirement; Mick Jagger trying to sing opera? Comical.

Luciano Pavarotti trying to sing rock n roll? More comical.

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

I am a guitarist and have enjoyed the Beatles my whole life, as I’ve said earlier here. A couple years ago, for some unknown reason, I decided to get a Beatles songbook that contained all the songs they actually wrote.

When I started going through that book and seeing not just the chords they utilized but how they strung them together, I was genuinely blown away, and my admiration for them as musicians grew tenfold. Many of the chords they used were brand new to me, even after playing guitar for 30 years.

Again, realizing they were pretty much untrained, technically, and had no websites to look up chords, etc, it’s almost incredible that they did what they did. Musically, it’s nothing short of fascinating.

Did they sing as beautifully as the Everlys? As powerfully as Roy Orbison? All that is subjective. But what they did musically/technically will likely always be part of the canon of western pop music.

This one? This collection of their musical scores is incredible!

 

[Sam Gamgee]

This one? This collection of their musical scores is incredible!

I have the Beatles Chord Songbook.

 

[The Amish Tyrant]

I know
It's only rock n roll
But I like it

Got its own criteria and while there are some technically good singers, it's not a requirement; Mick Jagger trying to sing opera? Comical.

Luciano Pavarotti trying to sing rock n roll? More comical.

Or Pat Boone singing metal and releasing the album below:

In a Metal Mood: No More Mr. Nice Guy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I appreciate what the Beatles did for music (from pop to rock and psychedelic), but I'm not a fan (although some of John Lennon's solo stuff is decent).

My favorite Beatles story is the band checking out a Jimi Hendrix show 3 days after Sgt. Pepper's was released. Hendrix covered the whole album and the Beatles were blown away.

Stories

www.beatlesstory.com

 

[Chasing Embers]

I like discussion, not arguments so I won't be getting sucked into any here.

Welcome to pipe smoking. For all if the romantic notions that pipe smokers are a civilized lot, opinion threads more often than not turn into heated arguments.

 

[Cloozoe]

Welcome to pipe smoking. For all if the romantic notions that pipe smokers are a civilized lot, opinion threads more often than not turn into heated arguments.

If this is a "heated argument", I'm Phil Everly

 

[Chasing Embers]

If this is a "heated argument", I'm Phil Everly

I saw no argument here either. Wait until you see a thread closing/deleting war. The exchanges on this one aren't even lukewarm.

 

[Cloozoe]

I don't understand the continued fascination with the Beatles. You do. That's about it really...

I'm with you; I don't get quantum mechanics but it never stops me from pontificating about it.

And Shakespeare couldn't write nearly as well as John Grisham; I can finish a Grisham in an hour and don't have to look up any words.

John Coltrane? Beethoven? Verdi? Otis Redding?

Hell, give me Captain and Tennille anytime; numerous top singles, lots of gold and platinum albums...even had their own TV show, the ultimate measure of musical achievement!

 

[Gimlet]

If this is a "heated argument", I'm Phil Everly

You're remarkably coherent for someone who died nine years ago.

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

Back when my baby could slide across the bench seat of the pickup and you just went for a ride!

 

[Gimlet]

I'm with you; I don't get quantum mechanics but it never stops me from pontificating about it.

And Shakespeare couldn't write nearly as well as John Grisham; I can finish a Grisham in an hour and don't have to look up any words.

John Coltrane? Beethoven? Verdi? Otis Redding?

TBF, I wasn't arguing for or against the Beatles' music. You either like it, or you don't, or you're somewhere in the middle like me who isn't fussed either way and doesn't get the passions roused. Which is what prompted the thread: my bafflement at the amount of news coverage this proposed AI compiled song was attracting.

And of the last four, Beethoven for me. But that's just me.