Bad experience with tongue bite

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bprivateaerdric

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2017
69
0
Lexington, KY
Yeah, the guy says "Oh, I would have to look it up"... He makes up his own names and is pretty sure all tobacco comes from the same company these days anyway. Great guy, and I enjoy shopping at his store, but a little opinionated. Almost as much as me, so pretty bad.
I should start shopping online too. I think he might be right that a lot of the difference between tobaccos is marketing, like it is with coffee, but if I had more info, I could make better comparisons.
I have not tried aromatics yet, but I did buy some Carter Hall, which I just tried again and had the same effect. At least a shallow draw keeps it towards the front of my mouth.

 

andrew

Preferred Member
Feb 13, 2013
2,876
9
Give yourself a break it takes time, let your mouth heal which will probably take a week, smoking more will not help in the meantime no matter what blend it is

 

deathmetal

Preferred Member
Jul 21, 2015
7,715
23
I would avoid puffing entirely. The breath smoking link that Chasing Frigates posted is great.
Also, consider a Burley blend with low flavorings. Virginias can be acidic, and toppings can be irritants.

 

obidonkenobi

New member
Apr 7, 2017
34
0
@bprivateaerdric: I asked one of the staff at Mission Pipes in San Jose about tongue bite, and he stated categorically that it was a physical (heat) reaction, and not chemical or biological. Not sure I believe that, but between the two of us, he's the professional tobacconist and I'm the newbie, so...
In my Captain Black experience, originally, I was convinced it was a chem/bio problem, but when I smoked slower and directed the smoke into the space inside my mouth rather than my tongue or roof, the "bite" all but disappeared. I'm not sure how to explain your experience with getting bite even behind your plate dentures - only experimentation and experience will solve that conundrum. But I agree with Andy (above): wait for your mouth to completely heal from all symptoms before lighting-up again. Trying to acclimate your mouth to smoking by smoking a lot, even if it causes damage, doesn't sound like a good approach, and may result in more damage.

 

pipesmokingtom

Preferred Member
May 4, 2015
3,210
6
Not sure I believe that, but between the two of us, he's the professional tobacconist and I'm the newbie, so...
I've heard some of the most ridiculous hogwash from the mouths of "tobacconists," so I'd take that with a grain of salt. Tongue bite can most certainly be chemical/biological.

 

obidonkenobi

New member
Apr 7, 2017
34
0
@pipesmokingtom: I can definitely believe that "bite" is also a chem/bio reaction. I've read that the Biotene mouth spray can help with it, but didn't find that to be effective for me. I've also tried drinking something acidic to counteract the alkaline(?) influence of smoke without success.
Does anyone here have any advice on how to deal with tongue bite after it happens?

 

pipesmokingtom

Preferred Member
May 4, 2015
3,210
6
I've also tried drinking something acidic to counteract the alkaline(?) influence of smoke without success.
I wouldn't try and actively balance the Ph in your mouth. Sipping a cool glass of water with your smoke is probably a better idea.

 

obidonkenobi

New member
Apr 7, 2017
34
0
@pipesmokingtom: Yeah, my informal attempt to pH balance didn't do anything. Still, I wonder if there's anything out there that could help. For example: when eating hot peppers, I found out that drinking a hot drink, even just water, helps lessen the chemical burning sensation in my tongue. The theory being that the hot fluid opens the pores in the tongue allowing the burning chemicals to be flushed away. I've tried cold drinks and milk, they didn't seem to do anything. Next chance I get, I'll try hot water for tongue bite.

 

buckaroo

Preferred Member
Sep 30, 2014
977
1,191
So. Cal.
Geez. I don't think this is your problem, but if you pack too loosely (ribbon cut) all the heat from the lighter will transfer to your tongue and taste will vanish/ burn will set in and you'll be relegated to the sidelines for 5 days to think about what just happened

 

bprivateaerdric

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2017
69
0
Lexington, KY
Well, one thing I know for certain is that my homemade fermented sauerkraut makes it a billion times worse. :oops:
From looking around the internet I think the problem is that we don't have field measurements and a chemist working on the problem. Even those sites who claim to have "the science" behind tongue bite often disagree.
I don't want conclusions, I want to see measurements.

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
20,246
16,151
Carmel Valley, CA
I, too, wish there were more quantitative measurements in our pastime/hobby/addiction/pleasure.
Geez. I don't think this is your problem, but if you pack too loosely (ribbon cut) all the heat from the lighter will transfer to your tongue and taste will vanish/ burn will set in and you'll be relegated to the sidelines for 5 days to think about what just happened
You should light whatever tobacco cut, however dry or wet, with minimum flame. Hold the tip of the flame above the tobacco and draw in just enough to ignite.
And I agree with ps Tom:
I've heard some of the most ridiculous hogwash from the mouths of "tobacconists," so I'd take that with a grain of salt. Tongue bite can most certainly be chemical/biological.
Some find coffee or tea, hot, are a nice accompaniment to a bowl. Some find they smoke best after food intake. Water is always "a good thing".
Good luck on your journey- sorry you've hit some road blocks.

 

mso489

Preferred Member
Feb 21, 2013
36,694
40,356
Watch out for strong minty toothpaste and mouthwash with alcohol that will make your burnt mouth sting. As Andy and others have suggested, you have to heal first. A week would be good, two better. Then go cautiously. A bowl or two a day is plenty, and not two in a row. I think most people find aromatic (flavored with other than tobacco) more prone to cause trouble, and more moist blends as well. Puffing aggressively is never a good idea; sipping is the method. I am not suggesting this for you at this point, but I've been surprised that full-strength non-aromatic blends go much easier than mild aromatics. Remember the sweet and other flavors added to flavored tobaccos also burn and can cause irritation. Once you are smoking only a bowl a day, maybe two on weekends, be sensitive to whether the sting returns, and also to any aftertaste, especially after some hours, or even after a meal but before you smoke again. That might signal more irritation. I think if you heal, then moderate your pipe smoking, and sip don't puff, you won't have problems. Watch out when you get new pipes and are tempted to overdo.

 

bprivateaerdric

Junior Member
Jun 16, 2017
69
0
Lexington, KY
A wayback listed article on tongue bite that at least sounds technically oriented. It mentions "studies" but does not cite them, but the first year chemistry is correct.
http://web.archive.org/web/20091009140127/http://virtualsmokinglounge.com/articles/tongue_bite.html

 

weezell

Preferred Member
Oct 12, 2011
13,108
37,762
Well, one thing I know for certain is that my homemade fermented sauerkraut makes it a billion times worse.
Well then I better take that sauerkraut off your hands! Can't have temptation layin around... :wink:

 

andrew

Preferred Member
Feb 13, 2013
2,876
9
I will agree there is something that burns the heck out of my mouth in most aromatics that use a lot of humidicant (pg) I'd assume, as the tobacco will never fully dry. With those I get the kind of experience you're talking about, so I avoid them. It's not a burn as no matter how slow I smoke it doesn't help. I have burnt my mouth though and usually that's from the tobacco being too moist so it creates steam so would think. Let your mouth heal and try one of the offending tobacco again to see if it's technique or a reaction. Some people can't smoke red virginia no matter how careful they are and some can't smoke perique. I can't smoke things like flavoured black Cavendish as I puff too hard trying to get flavour

 

monty55

Preferred Member
Apr 16, 2014
887
672
63
Bryan, Texas
Idk, this talk of swelling, redness, and so much pain doesn't sound right at all. Nevertheless, brush your teeth, gums and tongue really well. Then do it again with baking soda paste. Pay special attention to your tongue. Then gargle with hydrogen peroxide diluted with some water, several times. Then go to bed. Repeat first thing in the morning. Your mouth should now be in a neutral state.

 

jvnshr

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 4, 2015
4,515
3,339
Baku, Azerbaijan
bprivateaerdric, let's make few things clear first:
Tongue burn (heat burn): It happens when you smoke too fast. The combustion in the chamber causes more water to evaporate due to hotter temperature and that steam burns the tongue, roof of the mouth, cheeks, etc. Some tobacco types tend to easily get hotter than other types. Almost any type of tobacco can cause heat burn if the limits are pushed.
Symptoms: You almost won't feel anything while smoking (maybe some burning feeling, like the one you get from a hot tea or coffee). If you continue smoking for an hour or so, once you finish you will feel the burn. After few hours you will feel the burn on your tongue and the next day you will feel a thin layer on your tongue and roof of the mouth (like a layer of fat that sticks to the roof of your mouth when you eat cold fatty meat). Your body is trying to heal while replacing the skin of the burned parts.
Solution: Improve your packing method (after packing the bowl take a sip through the stem, there should be zero resistance, actually it should feel like there is no tobacco in the bowl) and slow down if the pipe gets too hot while smoking, I usually take a sip every 3-5 seconds, sometimes 3 sips consecutively, it all depends. Drying the tobacco to an optimal level will also help.
Remedy: Honey. That is the best remedy for the tongue burn (and I am talking about the organic one). Usually your body needs few days to recover from a tongue/roof burn but with honey it takes a day (more or less). Take a spoon of honey and hold it in your mouth until it dissolves inside the mouth completely. You can also drink ice water to sooth the pain, but it won't help the recovery.
Tongue bite: It is a chemical reaction and caused by the higher alkalinity of the pipe tobacco. It can or not depend on the temperature of the combustion. Burley for example burns slowly however has a higher alkalinity, so you can get a tongue bite from a burley leaf as soon as you light the pipe. Virginia on the other hand is on the acidic side but usually burns faster and fast burn can cause alkalinity in the smoke thus tongue bite.
Symptoms: You will feel cramps once you take a puff and it will feel like hundreds of needles on your tongue.
Solution: Everything written above for the heat burn can be applied but sometimes nothing works. It is like mixing baking soda with vinegar and expecting to see no bubbles. There will be bubbles and it will hurt your tongue. Macbaren's Plumcake was giving me tongue bites for example (the word "bite" is mentioned 166 times on the page of Plumcake). I aired it for some time, let it age for few months, dried it completely, then rehydrated it. There was just a little bit bite left and I eliminated that with a pipe filter. Pipe filters can be helpful by the way, but not all the time.
Remedy: Stop smoking for few hours, for a day if possible. For an instant relief you can drink ice water as well.

 

jvnshr

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 4, 2015
4,515
3,339
Baku, Azerbaijan
My tongue was burned for half it's length and my palate and the back of my mouth felt like strep throat. My lips, tongue and palate were swollen, red, and itchy.
And yes, you can get those from smoking too much. I used to smoke a pipe a day and one weekend when I had some free time I smoked 3 pipes consecutively. It took me 3 days to heal. Now I smoke 2 pipes a day and I can easily rise this number up to 3 on weekends without any problem.

 

deathmetal

Preferred Member
Jul 21, 2015
7,715
23
Improve your packing method (after packing the bowl take a sip through the stem, there should be zero resistance, actually it should feel like there is no tobacco in the bowl)
Excellent point. If you are having to suck or forcibly inhale, the pipe is incorrectly packed.
The best bowls that I have smoked have been gravity filled, then lightly compressed, and burn naturally so that I forget there is a pipe in my mouth, and am simply cycling air through the mouth like one might do when tasting the fresh air of one of the first days of spring.

 
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