Astley's Pipe Restoration, Peterson Made Or A Look-a-Like?

[orlandofurioso]

At first glance at the sales images, I thought this was an old Peterson. The heavy oxidation was a good hint that the ferrule was sterling. It looked like a good project pipe and the price was really good. Also, I've had regrets about giving away a standard system Peterson to a relative be cause I just seem too large at the time.
The pipe turns out to be an Astley's of 109 Jermyn St. It looks like an old one with an orifice button and the sterling ferrule does not have any marks other than "Silver" in script on it.
Other than a bite-through on top of the stem and being full of dust in the bowl, it was in remarkably good shape. Whomever the original owner was, they kept a clean bowl. With the ferrule shined, the stem deoxidized, and the Astley's "A" carefully brought back, I think it has turned into a good looking pipe. This was also my first repair of a full bite-through. It turned out well but after all the work, I'm still protecting it with a bite protector. That is something I generally don't use but I'm making an exception here.
I've been searching for more information, I didn't know anything about Astley's pipes, but have not found any images of an Astley's quite like this one. Asking Google if Peterson ever made pipes for Astley's got me a "it is rumored, but there is no evidence" response.
Now that my curiosity has been peaked, I'm hoping some of you pipe gurus can shed a little more knowledge on this pipe. With the orifice button and no sterling marks other than "Silver" it feels like it is an older pipe. Also, it does have an uncanny profile to old images of earlier Peterson 213 pipes. Is that just a coincidence? It comes in a 73g though which is heavier than similar Peterson pipes I've seen online. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.

Original photo:

View attachment 397564

View attachment 397570

Restored:
View attachment 397565

View attachment 397567

View attachment 397568

View attachment 397569

Whatever the "truth"; this is imho a very nice pipe and you did a great job on the restoration.

 

[Lost Somnambulist]

Whatever the "truth"; this is imho a very nice pipe and you did a great job on the restoration.

I appreciate that. And honestly, if all of the branding were stripped off of it, it has turned out to be a wonderful pipe.

 

[orlandofurioso]

I purchased more than one pipe from Mordechai's widow Karen and it was always a true pleasure.
Truth be told I never ventured on buying an Upshall or Astley's from her.

.

 

[BingBong]

Looks more like a house pipe made by Savinelli.

Savinelli Dry 614
View attachment 397626

I have a 613 which is pretty small and bears no comparison to Petersons in finish - the stem is very plasticky. Can't live with that mouthpiece, personally, but that's another issue - after 3 smokes, it's all back in its box, ready to be fobbed off on anyone who'll have it for the price of postage.

 

[paulfg]

My father was an aerospace engineer, so critical thinking and a healthy skepticism was ingrained in me at an early age.

I looked at the grain pattern. Stamps are easy to fake. Grain patterns are not. So when photos of pipes sold on eBay later turned up on eBay with an Astley’s stamp, EXACTLY the same shape and grain pattern, that removed any doubt.

this was the clincher for me.When I saw the photographs of the 2 pipes with exactly the same grain pattern

 

[WerewolfOfLondon]

I’d say that it definitely “looks” like a Peterson with an Astley’s stamp on it. The sterling olive lacking proper hallmarks and makers marks is bothering me.
There was SO much fakery under Ezrati’s ownership of the brand, refinishing and restamping of pipes bought in auctions and estate sales that any little strangeness makes for doubt.
That’s Ezrati’s legacy, permanently crapping up the Astley’s name.

Would you say it is safe to assume that Ezrati was up to this skullduggery with the Upshall brand as well? I bought a pipe from his ebay channel long before I heard any of this. It is marked as an Upshall, but as soon as I received it I thought it was crap pipe. It just felt like a cheap basket pipe you'd get from JJ Fox. Which was kind of OK because I paid 50 quid for it, which is a fiver more than the basket pipes go for in JJ Fox. I just assumed Upshall was a really shite carver, and that his skills are vastly overrated. Now I firmly believe what I have is a basket pipe that has Upshall's stamp on it.

 

[Lost Somnambulist]

this was the clincher for me.When I saw the photographs of the 2 pipes with exactly the same grain pattern

I can see the A stamped on the stem. What stamping is on the stummel isn't clear in the photo. What was the pipe's original stamping, if any? Was the 109 Jermyn St stamp used on Azrati's pipes? I've seen images of pipes that didn't seem to show the street number. Was Ezrati using using the stummel stamping from a certain era or different eras and configurations? There also looks like a stem switch and the band is removed. There is obviously something amiss in the photos but when all of the evidence isn't put on the table, I start questioning everybody. Put all of the evidence out there clearly. There may be tales and patterns that would help determine to a greater confidence percentage a pipe's provenance. If there are before and after photos to compare briar patterns, that's a good start but it leaves out most of the pipes running around in the wild. It is a shame that this situation has been created but if no one is concerned enough to create and maintain serious documentation then what does that say, as passionate as we all can be about our pipes?
Light up, enjoy the smoke! This is now a part of the curious and often mysterious history of pipes.

 

[greeneyes]

How to differentiate Astley pipes made by Charatan, by Dunhill or by Ashton? :: British Pipes

Masters! Could you please share with me your experience how to differentiate Astley pipes made by Charatan, by Dunhill or by Ashton?

pipesmagazine.com

 

[sablebrush52]

Would you say it is safe to assume that Ezrati was up to this skullduggery with the Upshall brand as well? I bought a pipe from his ebay channel long before I heard any of this. It is marked as an Upshall, but as soon as I received it I thought it was crap pipe. It just felt like a cheap basket pipe you'd get from JJ Fox. Which was kind of OK because I paid 50 quid for it, which is a fiver more than the basket pipes go for in JJ Fox. I just assumed Upshall was a really shite carver, and that his skills are vastly overrated. Now I firmly believe what I have is a basket pipe that has Upshall's stamp on it.

Short answer? Absolutely.

 

[paulfg]

I had no idea that any of that was going on with “Astley’s” p

Would you say it is safe to assume that Ezrati was up to this skullduggery with the Upshall brand as well? I bought a pipe from his ebay channel long before I heard any of this. It is marked as an Upshall, but as soon as I received it I thought it was crap pipe. It just felt like a cheap basket pipe you'd get from JJ Fox. Which was kind of OK because I paid 50 quid for it, which is a fiver more than the basket pipes go for in JJ Fox. I just assumed Upshall was a really shite carver, and that his skills are vastly overrated. Now I firmly believe what I have is a basket pipe that has Upshall's stamp on it.

Barry Jones was definitely not a really shite carver,so yeah you probably have a ringer

 

[mingc]

About 15 to 20 years ago, I bought a smooth Astley bent bulldog estate with a broken bit. I made the mistake of sending it to Ezrati for a replacement Astley stamped stem after he said Barry Jones would work on it. The pipe came back with a shank that was clearly sanded down to match the new stem and a stem that spun around the mortise like a propeller. Ezrati charged me over $300 for the repair. I've no idea if Barry Jones ever saw the pipe. To say I was livid would be an understatement. I'm still angry. The new stem did have an Astley A on it. I can live with losing money to a cheat. But irreparably ruining a beautiful pipe is unforgivable.

 

[Lost Somnambulist]

How to differentiate Astley pipes made by Charatan, by Dunhill or by Ashton? :: British Pipes

Masters! Could you please share with me your experience how to differentiate Astley pipes made by Charatan, by Dunhill or by Ashton?

pipesmagazine.com

Now that's a good start! No one should take it personal. My job is actually to sort through loads of BS to reveal, without a doubt, the heart of the matter. I don't believe or disbelieve when I start out on a mystery, it's the journey and the revelations that are important. Fortunately, the pipe I've picked up has revealed itself to be an exquisitely nice smoker, which is where my personal interest rests on this subject. I've learned a little more pipe history as a bonus as well. There will be an extra bit of impish delight every time I light this pipe from now on.

 

[Lost Somnambulist]

About 15 to 20 years ago, I bought a smooth Astley bent bulldog estate with a broken bit. I made the mistake of sending it to Ezrati for a replacement Astley stamped stem after he said Barry Jones would work on it. The pipe came back with a shank that was clearly sanded down to match the new stem and a stem that spun around the mortise like a propeller. Ezrati charged me over $300 for the repair. I've no idea if Barry Jones ever saw the pipe. To say I was livid would be an understatement. I'm still angry. The new stem did have an Astley A on it. I can live with losing money to a cheat. But irreparably ruining a beautiful pipe is unforgivable.

Yeah, I'd probably still be angry too! That is truly a horror story.

 

[WerewolfOfLondon]

Now that's a good start! No one should take it personal. My job is actually to sort through loads of BS to reveal, without a doubt, the heart of the matter. I don't believe or disbelieve when I start out on a mystery, it's the journey and the revelations that are important. Fortunately, the pipe I've picked up has revealed itself to be an exquisitely nice smoker, which is where my personal interest rests on this subject. I've learned a little more pipe history as a bonus as well. There will be an extra bit of impish delight every time I light this pipe from now on.

If you're fine with being sold a Peterson marked as an Astley, that's up to you. But that shit is just straight up fraud. I've been sold a basket pipe as an Upshall, and unlike you, I'm not OK with it. I've been mugged off. That won't change if I fire it up and the pipe is the best smoking pipe of all time. Sometimes it's best just to admit you've been taken for a wally.

 

[Lost Somnambulist]

If you're fine with being sold a Peterson marked as an Astley, that's up to you. But that shit is just straight up fraud. I've been sold a basket pipe as an Upshall, and unlike you, I'm not OK with it. I've been mugged off. That won't change if I fire it up and the pipe is the best smoking pipe of all time. Sometimes it's best just to admit you've been taken for a wally.

 

[Lost Somnambulist]

You see, unlike you, I wasn't buying an Atley's. I was picking up an old pipe for the sake of restoring, the work itself. You couldn't buy a burned out Pete for what I gave. It turned out to be a very nice older Peterson with intriguing history. I looked back to see where I said you had to be ok with your experience but didn't see it. I was familiar enough to be reasonably sure of the original manufacturer, even if I wasn't familiar with the Astley's name (a re-brander themselves). Our original reasons and investments are not the same; different perspectives, different outcomes. Hopefully, your purchases since have been far more rewarding.

 

[BingBong]

Well, this has been a thriller. I read the whole 2013 thread as a consequence. Now, it looks like user @robski has been here very recently, perhaps to view the current thread; I'd welcome any insights from him on this one?

 

[WerewolfOfLondon]

You see, unlike you, I wasn't buying an Atley's. I was picking up an old pipe for the sake of restoring, the work itself. You couldn't buy a burned out Pete for what I gave. It turned out to be a very nice older Peterson with intriguing history. I looked back to see where I said you had to be ok with your experience but didn't see it. I was familiar enough to be reasonably sure of the original manufacturer, even if I wasn't familiar with the Astley's name (a re-brander themselves). Our original reasons and investments are not the same; different perspectives, different outcomes. Hopefully, your purchases since have been far more rewarding.

That's fair enough.

 

[greeneyes]

Well, this has been a thriller. I read the whole 2013 thread as a consequence. Now, it looks like user @robski has been here very recently, perhaps to view the current thread; I'd welcome any insights from him on this one?

Fascinating. After a look, I'd say that @robski might be one to interview as he apparently has lots of firsthand knowledge of things relevant to modern pipe history.

 

[ssjones]

Astley's threads turn up occasionally here.

Astley Pipes = Re-Stamped Estate Pipes (Photos) :: General Pipe Smoking Discussion

So, pitchfork, in this interesting thread you've set running what seems a very cunning and slippery hare! Is it cornered? Is it winded? Or is it sitting happily in a copse watching the hounds baying in frustrated futility? On the subject of "fraud" there is the "damning" photographic evidence...

pipesmagazine.com

Astley Pipes Authenticity :: Pipe Talk

EDIT: Fixed Capitalization in Title (See Rule 9) Just FYI, there has been considerable misinformation concerning the Astleys pipe brand over the past few years. Having visited the Jermyn street store back in 1985 when I bought two of their beautiful briars I have done a bit of research which I...

pipesmagazine.com