Astleys 44 & 109 - Production Foulup?

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PipeIT

Lifer
Nov 14, 2020
5,141
30,427
Hawaii
I just purchased last month Astleys 44 & 109, and I just opened the tins today, and I was quite surprised at what I saw.

44 is listed on the tin front as a Dark Virginia Flake, the back of the tin says;

‘A powerful dark Virginia flake matured in the press for a longer period.’

109 is listed on the tin front as a Medium Flake, the back of the tin says;

‘Extraordinary flakes of dark Virginia’.

Ok, so, 109, calls it a Medium on the front and then dark on the back, after all, rhetorically speaking, what does Medium Flake really mean, it can be anything.

BUT...

Calling 109 Medium, and then 44 Dark, on the front of the tins, and saying 44 was maturing in a press longer, I would of certainly assumed that the flakes looked darker/richer with 44 and they’re not.

109 actually looks and smells like the dark flakes that have been in a press maturing longer.

Now I’m not the VA pro around here, but every VA I have smoked, calling itself Dark, looked Dark, not like a pretty normal Bright Brown VA tone.

Wessex Campaign Dark Flake, was the last tin of a dark flake I opened last month, and that is a very dark looking beef jerky colored dark like flake.

Have a look at these pics, did Astleys foulup here, and maybe placed the wrong batch in the wrong tin? Otherwise, how does long time pressed mature VA turn out looking so light, I’ve not seen it till now.

hmm 🤔

81C69B7D-04E7-496E-B60C-02796D6DF561.jpeg

I’m drying out 109 as I type this, I’ve not smoked either yet, but when I do, I’ll report back here, to let you know, if 44 did turn out more powerful, as stated on the tin. 🤔
 

canucklehead

Lifer
Aug 1, 2018
2,862
15,355
Alberta
The 109 looks like it has a lot less stem content. The 44 looks dark in between the lighter coloured stems. From what I can see from your pics on my phone in the sunlight, I may revise my opinion when I look at it later indoors on a bigger screen.
 
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Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
44,915
117,173
Sounds like a running theme.

 

PipeIT

Lifer
Nov 14, 2020
5,141
30,427
Hawaii
Something I forgot to mention, 109 saying its; A Mild & Mellow Flake.

As I’m smoking it, I would agree it could be looked at like a mild and mellow blend, but from most VAs I’ve smoked categorized like this, were much milder.

This is a little bit more Stout and Rich, as a mild smoke.

I think any blend can be categorized as Mild and Mellow, even Rich Full flavored blends.

So Mild & Mellow seems to be a throw on words, or 109 has changed considerably.

For defining a blend, I don’t believe the words Mild and Rich are synonymous.

hmm 🤔
 
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109 and 44 “used” to be my favorite smokes, but the last few years they’ve kept fucking them up. 44 has practically been an aromatic with how much of that gawdawful licorice casing they put on it, and 109 has been hit or miss. 109 used to only have a stewed fruit smell, now… casing is what I smell.

I just avoid them now. No telling what you’ll get.
 

PipeIT

Lifer
Nov 14, 2020
5,141
30,427
Hawaii
The flakes are decent looking, with some nice tin notes, there’s no doubt about that.

So far, I’ve smoked 3/4 a bowl of the 109, and I’m not impressed, there’s barely any flavor, which I don’t get how such a dark flake could be so bland. :(

On to the 44...
 

PipeIT

Lifer
Nov 14, 2020
5,141
30,427
Hawaii
44 was was completely tasteless, and awful. After trying to stomach smoking a 1/4 of a bowl, I thought to let the pipe cool, relight and hope for the best. After that 1/4 bowl of nothing, I was truly dreading relighting this, the first time ever as a pipe smoker, ever dreading a blend.

So, I let the pipe cool, then relit it, and nothing, completely tasteless.

As I first started to dive into these blends, not enjoying them, I thought, let me put them in the Box Pass I signed up for others to sample.

Holy Crap! I’m glad I kept trying out the blends a little, to then realize, I’d never want this stuff in anyone’s hands, let alone a new pipe smoker, and forever turn them off from smoking.

Crap, this stuff could make you wanna look for some rope and a tree, if you thought this was suppose to be the good stuff in life. :(

Damm, I need a break from this rubbish in my mouth. 🤢

Stay Away from this junk, major big thumb down! 👎

P.S. Off course I threw these turds 💩 in the trash!
 

Davy

Can't Leave
Nov 22, 2022
324
885
Quality decreases. Tobacco quantity in tins decreases while humectants and additives are increased. Prices increase.
What's not to like?
 
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SBC

Lifer
Oct 6, 2021
1,614
7,611
NE Wisconsin
The tins of A44 I've opened and smoked were from years ago, and it's one of my favorite tobaccos ever.
(I tried a tin of A109 for the first time a year or two ago, and didn't care for it.)

I recently found a few tins of A44 online and ordered them. I haven't opened one, and now I'm nervous to.
 
Dec 3, 2021
5,464
46,972
Pennsylvania & New York
44 was was completely tasteless, and awful. After trying to stomach smoking a 1/4 of a bowl, I thought to let the pipe cool, relight and hope for the best. After that 1/4 bowl of nothing, I was truly dreading relighting this, the first time ever as a pipe smoker, ever dreading a blend.

So, I let the pipe cool, then relit it, and nothing, completely tasteless.

As I first started to dive into these blends, not enjoying them, I thought, let me put them in the Box Pass I signed up for others to sample.

Holy Crap! I’m glad I kept trying out the blends a little, to then realize, I’d never want this stuff in anyone’s hands, let alone a new pipe smoker, and forever turn them off from smoking.

Crap, this stuff could make you wanna look for some rope and a tree, if you thought this was suppose to be the good stuff in life. :(

Damm, I need a break from this rubbish in my mouth. 🤢

Stay Away from this junk, major big thumb down! 👎

P.S. Off course I threw these turds 💩 in the trash!
Instead of tossing these, why not jar them and see if they develop into something better over time?
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
20,707
48,987
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
People were bitching about changes to 44 and 109 a decade ago and have been before and since. Astley's is just one of many IPs bought up by K&K.

Seems like it's more of a "whatever" tobacco inside a "whatever" tin in a "whatever" world.

I never found K&K's Astley product to be anything more than pleasant and mild. One of these years I may revisit the blends, as I have some "pre-bitching" tins, to see if they got interesting over the years.
 

Davy

Can't Leave
Nov 22, 2022
324
885
People were bitching about changes to 44 and 109 a decade ago and have been before and since. Astley's is just one of many IPs bought up by K&K.

Seems like it's more of a "whatever" tobacco inside a "whatever" tin in a "whatever" world.

I never found K&K's Astley product to be anything more than pleasant and mild. One of these years I may revisit the blends, as I have some "pre-bitching" tins, to see if they got interesting over the years.
And bitching when Condor production was transferred to Poland.
And bitching when Mac Baren took over production of St. Bruno.
And bitching when STG took over from Murray's over the Dunhill blends.
When Murray's took over production of the Dunhill blends (1981), then amateurs were worried about the future quality of their favorite blends. In other words, they were bitching.
I read an article about Dunhill and English blends in general, written in 1997 or 1998. The author was lamenting (bitching) the poor quality of the tobacco of the day, compared to how good it was 15 years prior.
I guess our community likes to bitch, and me the first one. I will admit that.
 
Jan 30, 2020
2,211
7,329
New Jersey
The amount this comes up with K&K, I’d never buy anything of theirs.

This was a good one:
 
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Davy

Can't Leave
Nov 22, 2022
324
885
Based on my impressions of Artisan's Blend, Black Mallory, Accountant's Mixture, Jock's Mixture and Professional Mixture, K & K seems to like adding a bit more (to sound conservative) unsweetened Black Cavendish than required, rather than the proper amount of Latakia required to make a Scottish blend taste like one.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
20,707
48,987
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
And bitching when Condor production was transferred to Poland.
And bitching when Mac Baren took over production of St. Bruno.
And bitching when STG took over from Murray's over the Dunhill blends.
When Murray's took over production of the Dunhill blends (1981), then amateurs were worried about the future quality of their favorite blends. In other words, they were bitching.
I read an article about Dunhill and English blends in general, written in 1997 or 1998. The author was lamenting (bitching) the poor quality of the tobacco of the day, compared to how good it was 15 years prior.
I guess our community likes to bitch, and me the first one. I will admit that.
Yep. One of the complaints against Murray's was that they didn't clean out all of the stems, so some would show up in the tin. They also cut some of the more complicated stages in some of the Dunhill made blends. On the other hand, Murray's added Navy Rolls to the line up, since Dunhill never made Navy Rolls.

A level of homogeneity in blends has certainly appeared as individual blenders crossed the rainbow bridge, their IP's being bought up by a few corporations.

As for a quality drop during the '90's, that was pretty widely accepted.