Astley Pipes = Re-Stamped Estate Pipes (Photos)

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pitchfork

Lifer
May 25, 2012
4,030
606
peterpiperuk,
On another forum, a smoker who is well versed in meerschaum pipes raised questions about the meerschaums being sold by this vendor. The thread was from a couple of years ago, if I remember. But he did point out that the pipes for sale are in no way marked as being made by A. Bauer and/or whoever else is supposed to have made them.

 

robski

Lurker
Aug 30, 2013
17
1
the pipes for sale are in no way marked as being made by A. Bauer and/or whoever else is supposed to have made them.
The ones in the shop ( Bentley era) were also without marking, so I wouldn't read too much into that

 

pitchfork

Lifer
May 25, 2012
4,030
606
robski,
I'll have to find the thread, but the fellow making this point had other questions about their provenance. None of it is conclusive of anything, but if someone wanted an Andreas Bauer meerschaum, he might think twice about taking someone's word for it. More to the point, it's another instance in which people (not here) have wondered about the Astley pipes for sale by that vendor.

 

rebornbriar

Starting to Get Obsessed
Aug 21, 2013
250
1
United Kingdom
Going back to the reply regarding the buying and selling statistics, I still can't get my head around why he should have done this. it is clear that there is no overall monetary gain. Sure, if you re-brand one cheap pipe and sell it for a good price, it may seem that way. But balance this against the total cost of all the other pipes being purchased which go God knows where, and I would doubt there has been any real overall profit.
So the question again is why risk the reputation in such a way? Perhaps the stock of actual "Astley" pipes acquired with the purchase of the shop rights is running low, or no longer exists and he wanted to retain the mystique of a bygone era of "Old London".
Mr Ezrati states that Astley were simply getting a supply of stummels from the top manufacturers, which were refinished by other artisans. I have no reason to doubt this statement. After all it is rumoured that Dunhill bring in pre-turned stummels now for finishing - and if not now they certainly did in the early days of the company. Peterson also bring in pre-turned stummels and finish them in the Sallynoggin factory.
Had it been me, and I owned the Astley brand, I would have continued in the same vein a the original shop. At the end of the day, the shop was just a retail outlet, and today, eBay is just an alternative retail outlet. However, I would have also had a very stylish website. Under this famous name, he could have been bringing in pipes from the top carvers still working today. Think of Chris Askwith, Colin Fromm, Ian Walker, Les Wood and perhaps a continued relationship with Dunhill - and these are only the UK carvers. Think of some of the top worldwide carvers who would have been honoured to be associated with such a famous name. The brand of "Astley" could have reached new heights in this expanded online world.
Unfortunately that can now only ever be a pipe dream (excuse the pun). It is true that the phoenix rose from the ashes. Perhaps this may happen again, but it will not happen under its current ownership.

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
reborn, it also seems odd that the starting bid in auctions is relatively high - eg the pipes I referred to today - is he determined not to sell? Is this self foot-shooting?

 

rebornbriar

Starting to Get Obsessed
Aug 21, 2013
250
1
United Kingdom
No, I don't think so. If he started them at 0.99 at the minute they might go for £20, if lucky. As a brand retailer, he has to retain an element of value in the brand. I know this might sound laughable at the minute, but selling the items for a song will just accelerate the fall, so to speak.
It is the same for all pipe makers. They set the retail price of their items. Even if certain of those items are not selling particularly well, they will not sell them off wholesale as this has the effect of devaluing the entire brand.

 

flakyjakey

Lifer
Aug 21, 2013
1,117
7
Usually at this time of the week jamesupshallpipeco have quite a few pipes up for Ebay auction. This week there are none. Quelle Surprise! (pardon my French! lol). They do however have 16 "purchase now" pipes on eBay; a mixture of James Upshall pipes and 3 "Dunhills made exclusively for Astley" !!! I wonder if THEY will sell??
PS They also have several "Andreas Bauer" meers, which don't seem to have been flying off the shelves recently! LOL

 

waluljan

Lurker
Aug 16, 2013
12
0
Maybe we should start a "Show off your so called Astley's and Upshall pipes from Moty" ... The guy, who had uncovered the scam surely can assign the new appearance to the "original material" its made of. Probably nobody else can do that, because, there is a time deferral between Moty's purchases and the time where the new pipe is born. Always more than a year, so you never can track the scam in his feedback. One have to archive the significant purchases for a long time, before you have some proof in your hand. I must admit, after all, the scam is a clever one... I'd pave the way, but I own one Upshall pipe (no not so called "Upshall"). Go for it ;-)

 

fishingandpipes

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 24, 2013
654
48
Any updates on this? Or has this been a whispered-about known for some time and just came to light in a more public manner recently?

 

waluljan

Lurker
Aug 16, 2013
12
0
Any updates on this?
I'm not sure, but suspicious after all that. Look at this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GBD-S-OWN-MAKE-LAID-BACK-MEERSCHAUM-LINED-BILLIARD-MINT-NR-/400591611749
I doesn't make any sense for me. How one should fake an cheap GBD? But:
I collect GBDs for years and own pieces beginning from the 19th century up to pipes made in the 70s in the last century. I never saw

a GBD "own make". I checked all my papers and catalogues - no "own make". I know "own make" by BBB and think the expert forger

made mistake here. The engraved "GBD" logo is a fake as well. GBD never made engravings (it's really fresh by the way) least at all in

the "first half of the 20th Century" as the description suggest. The GBD logo is always a stamp. Never mixed engraving and stamp,

never engraving. Apparently it's quite alluring, if you already own an engraving machine http://www.upshallusa.com/stamping.htm
For my share, I'd fake Bo Nordh and Sixten Ivarsson... I must admit, it's not as easy as this badly faked GBD, but it's value a hundredfold...
Greetings
Waluljan

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
18,408
11,298
Maryland
postimg.cc
I'm no GBD expert, but I collect the brand and know it fairly well. That does not look like a GBD to me either.

Someone should scan recent BBB ads for that one. Interesting that he does not show the other nomenclature in the pictures. On the other hand, financially, that makes no sense. But something sure does stink in Tilshead.
Ngbd2.w76.JPG


 

pitchfork

Lifer
May 25, 2012
4,030
606
I know nothing about GBDs, but this is weird -- especially the seemingly freshly engraved nomenclature on the shank.

 

rebornbriar

Starting to Get Obsessed
Aug 21, 2013
250
1
United Kingdom
This just gets stranger and stranger. Why fake a £20 pipe? The brass rondelle in the stem would place this as a pre-Cadogan era pipe which would not have been engraved on the shank in this style. Also as pointed out "Own Make" was a model of BBB and not GBD.
Ebay have changed the goalposts with feedback. They no longer show the item number or link to an item from the feedback. So whereas this could have been used to look back through all purchases on the account where feedback had been left for 3 months - The most that can be seen now is through the bidding history for a period of 15 days.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,747
45,288
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Just for fun I read through the Pipedia page on GBD and followed by looking at other GBD pages as well as my copy of "Who Made That Pipe?". None of the sources mention a GBD "Best Make".

But I do have a thought about all of this. Maybe the seller in question is just nuts?

 

robski

Lurker
Aug 30, 2013
17
1
Well, I've actually seen the GBD pipe in question. Nothing fake about it - its stamped GBD and has a metal GBD on the stem. Its not stamped "own Make" - That was just a poor choice of words. The so called fresh engraving is just a trick of the flash.

 

pitchfork

Lifer
May 25, 2012
4,030
606
robski, if you can find or produce another photo of an engraved logo that comes out looking like that, I'll believe it, but that looks like fresh wood to me, not a trick of the flash. I've never seen a stamped logo photograph anything like that. Good catch on the "Own Make" probably being an error -- it doesn't appear to be on the pipe.

 
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