Astley Pipes = Re-Stamped Estate Pipes (Photos)

[rebornbriar]

Having started the thread on SF, it was closed due to the outburst - more so than the thread subject, which has been confirmed to me by the mods. I think the final message on the thread from the moderator was open to interpretation which is why I asked for clarification. I don't think it needs any more discussion here, and we should stick to the subject matter in hand. I will not air the reasons in public. PM me if you want more explanation.

 

[dm14]

"No surprise the thread was closed at SF, they have a history of protecting known scumbags and thieves" : sad but true

Thank you gentlemen for a very interesting and most enlightening thread.

 

[flakyjakey]

For information, there are currently 8 "jamesupshallpipeco" pipes up for auction on sBay, of which 3 are "made exclusively for Astley by Dunhill". None of the 8 have yet received any bids. I wonder if the 3 "Astley's" will sell? What do members think/guess/bet?

 

[admin]

Hey guys, when I was a little kid my mom told me; "If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all."
I'm referring to the negative statements about SF. I wouldn't like it if their members were saying negative things about our forums, so let's please set a better example.
Thanks.

 

[misterlowercase]

...back to the grisly gristle.

Topics like this should make us all very thankful for PM because with out this forum many of us would never know....The rest of the story.

Indeed, well said and spot on. Thank you Kevin for providing such a glorious forum where open discussion on sensitive or controversial topics can evolve and possibly arrive at an answer of some sort.
...the rest of the story
Yes, this thread reads like a penny dreadful, appealing both to a sense of Sherlockian ratiocination and a Maigret-esque psychological insight --- the whole story would make a great Regis McCafferty novel!
jguss,

Thank you for taking the time to crunch those numbers and share the relevant data, your tremendous skills are self-evident in the thorough manner you've presented them.
Despite some criticism in this thread of eBay, we can say that at least eBay is fairly transparent, a clear trail exists and can be traced because of the way the system is set up, although it would be entirely exhaustive to sleuth through all the records. In fact, the initial evidence itself was found on eBay and the game was afoot, so the clues are there and if indeed the facts bear out the accusations, I can only shake my head in sadness at the deliberate deceit and frown upon the complete foolishness of someone trying to perpetuate such crimes in the naked open daylight.
I personally think that the one crucial piece of visual evidence is pretty damning, and with work I'd reckon more would be found --- I've reached my conclusions, there are no red herrings here, only the stench of unlawful activity.

 

[rebornbriar]

Hear hear Kevin. As the originator of the thread on SF, I have been trying to quell the comments regarding SF and steer them back to the matter in hand, namely the Astley conspiracy.
I would also like to thank jguss for trawling through the data. I was aware of the huge number of estate pipes purchased under this account (see back to my first reply as to the reasons given by Mr Ezrati concerning these pipes).
This has made me think that this whole exercise obviously hasn't been done for financial gain. The huge imbalance between the number of pipes bought and the number of pipes sold, means there is a huge surplus of estate pipes going somewhere else, or accumulating somewhere else.
Selling a few "phoenix" Astley pipes is nowhere near going to recoup the amount of money that has been spent on old estate pipes. Even if all the Astley pipes where questionable, this still wouldn't make up for the outlay. So this beggars the questions:
1) What actually is happening to all the other estate pipes? ........ and

2) If there is no overall financial gain, why do this in the first place and jeopardise your position?

 

[flakyjakey]

Reborn, surely you aren't suggesting Mr Ezrati has an extreme form of PAD? I've got PAD bad, but not that bad!!

 

[flakyjakey]

I see on eBay that there are still no bids on the 3 jamesupshallpipeco "Dunhill made for Astley" pipes. Still time though; I wonder if they'll sell?

 

[fishingandpipes]

Been following this with interest... very curious stuff. I hope we get a resolution eventually.
Between this and the Kyle Black saga there's been some negative news in the pipe world recently.

 

[flakyjakey]

STILL no bids on the 3 jamesushillpipesco "Dunhill made for Astley" pipes!

 

[fishingandpipes]

Did he always start them so high or with high Buy it Nows? I've perused them here and there but I thought they usually started with a low bid price and got bidded up by the users - usually when I pursued them it was because they were well under $100 and I wanted to see if I could snag one that slipped through the cracks for cheap.

 

[flakyjakey]

Still no bids on the Astley's. 14 hours left, exciting (or not)!

 

[rebornbriar]

I was watching a James Upshall in Germany today. One small picture and no description of the pipe. Based on the fact that this story originated in Germany, I think a lot of that market has fallen out with anything to do with the Upshall/Astley brand.
Even though there was only one small picture, the grain on the pipe looked as straight as a dies and tight. I bet it was a G grade. Of course when the time came around, I totally forgot about it The pipe sold for £39 which as far as I have seen, is an all time low for these pipes. I wish I had remembered and snapped it up at that price!!

 

[flakyjakey]

Still no bids - 1 hour left!!

 

[waluljan]

The pipe sold for £39 which as far as I have seen, is an all time low for these pipes. I wish I had remembered and snapped it up at that price!!

Indeed! If you have the "eye" to identify the real Upshall's, and reject Moty's reinterpretations, than you have a good time now to buy 'em. But who has this faculty? I'd

guess all the folks, who already own such an "Upshall" made of junk have enough yet. However, I'm not surprised. As a normal smoker of good nature, not specially

skilled or an expert, you finely have to consider, due to the masses of faked Upshall's and Astley's, each one you buy on eBay could be a faked one. I'm afraid, both brands are badly damaged now. And it seems unlikely, somebody could unravel the whole case and give you a guidance system, how to distinguish, this Upshall's are authentic, those not.

 

[flakyjakey]

waluljan, you raise some good points. At present it is important to distinguish between "James Upshall" pipes and "made for Astley" pipes which are also sold under "jamesupshallpipeco". It is the latter that are thought to be Astley re-branded estates or Astley-branded no-names (i.e. "fakes"). For example, the three "Dunhill Made For Astley" pipes which have received no bids and have just failed to sell on eBay.
In an earlier post I questioned whether, because both Astley and James Upshall are both owned by M Ezrati, the highly-thought-of James Upshall pipes carved by the legendary Barry Jones might also suffer. Others thought that this was not happening, but reborn's post strongly suggests that it is, at least in Germany.
I paid good money for four James Upshall's and got very high quality pipes in return. The tightness of their straight grain in the G-grade and above (B- and E- in my examples) and their staining is very distinctive. Like reborn I could recognise one in a pack, and unlike him I am not an expert. See if you can find a pic of a G, B or E and you will see what I mean (sorry, I've not yet worked out how to get photos posted). However my pipes are from the 80's, "lightly smoked estates", so I'm pretty sure they are carved by the man himself. But no one has seen or heard from him for some time now, so it's questionable whether he is still carving.
So, in conclusion, I personally would not touch a "made for Astley" pipe and I don't think I would buy a "new" James Upshall. Would I buy an older James Upshall? Yes, if prices start to plummet as they seem to have done in Germany!

 

[pitchfork]

Even the Upshall line has me spooked these days. This pipe, for instance:

Is that really a "G" grade? I've seen (in fact own) "P" grades with better grain.
Here's a "B" grade for comparison ("B" is a lower grade than "G").

And here's another "B".

With that first pipe, it just doesn't look like Upshall, or even quite like Charatan, where Jones used to work. It looks effing Danish to me. Regardless, I couldn't bring myself to buy it, even if I did want an over-graded Upshall with a fancy Danish stem.

 

[flakyjakey]

Pitchfork, from what you've displayed I entirely agree. My G grades (a pot, and a cherry-wood shape sitter) resemble your top one, but with tighter grain. They are both extremely light in the hand (for their size), suggesting well-aged briar?
Anyway, you've convinced me finally not to buy any more!
PS Sorry I got my G's and B's mixed up

 

[pitchfork]

To be clear, I'm not trying to convince anyone not to buy Upshalls. Any genuine Upshall is a great pipe in my experience. I'm just saying that after this long discussion and from the facts that have emerged, I'm very cautious about buying them, at least from that vendor. (Well, not that I'd buy from that vendor at all, at this point, though I have once in the past.)

 

[flakyjakey]

I will remain super-super cautious in the future, even though the ones I have are all great pipes