Astley Pipes Authenticity

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bermuda

Lurker
May 30, 2019
5
4
EDIT: Fixed Capitalization in Title (See Rule 9)

Just FYI, there has been considerable misinformation concerning the Astleys pipe brand over the past few years. Having visited the Jermyn street store back in 1985 when I bought two of their beautiful briars I have done a bit of research which I will share now: 1. The store never moved to a different location, it simply went out of business years ago, a victim of the anti smoking crowds draconian tactics worldwide. 2. Almost all of their house brand pipes were made either by Dunhill, Charatan, Ashton, never by Savinelli. 2. The Astley pipe tobaccos you see on the market today only bear their name because the trademark was purchased by another company, the blends are a very pale comparison to the blends available now. 3. The original Astley bran pipes had the stamping "109 Jermyn street" on the shank. The more recently produced pipe are stamped "Jermyn Street" without the "109" street number. 3. These more recent pipes have an unclear provenance. The seller has assured me that they purchased hundreds of briar blocks from Astleys when they went out of business and therefore these newer issues are authentic pipes made by the pipe makers I described in #2 above. I have no reason to doubt their word on this nor do I have any proof to the contrary. All I can tell you is that the lack of the street number on the new pipes does make them less collectable from my point of view. The reader will have to reach his or her own conclusions on this point. I wish that more of you could have visited the old shop as I did in 1985. It could not have been more than about 250 square feet but it was an absolute gem.
 
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donjgiles

Lifer
Apr 14, 2018
1,571
2,526
I just picked up a 72W, a large pipe with an amazing saddle bit stem that is so nice to smoke. Dark stain and very pretty grain with a Lovat feel, I will always have my eye out for more of these.
 

sasquatch

Lifer
Jul 16, 2012
1,708
3,001
"Unclear Provenance" is right. At one point the proprietor basically said "Well if you own the stamps, and you stamp a pipe with those stamps, then the pipe is stamped with that stamp, and therefore it is of that brand." Which was a pretty slithery sort of response I thought.
 

greeneyes

Lifer
Jun 5, 2018
2,339
12,853
I came across this information some time ago. There's plenty of reading on the subject if you wish to dig a little deeper, and draw your own conclusions:

 

greeneyes

Lifer
Jun 5, 2018
2,339
12,853
Yep, I remember those threads. Seems that a certain, since deceased, merchant was buying pipes on eBay and elsewhere, having them cleaned up and given an Astley's stamp, then reselling them as genuine Astley's pipes.
Re-reading those old threads I'd say the shadow cast by this was fairly long.
 
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mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,211
60,659
Aw, such a nice legendary name being mucked up by a sleazy operator who, it seems to me, can't have made huge money with this scam. It sounds pretty stupid as such knock-offs go. Better with the ladies' handbags behind the plywood false fronts in New York's Chinatown, with a transit customer base and cash all around. Now that's a scam! Most of the customers are in on the hustle, ready and willing to pass off their purchases as genuine Gucci, etc., to their friends back in Waterloo.
 

Briar Baron

Can't Leave
Sep 30, 2016
440
569
Sydney
I have 4 Astley pipes, 2 were purchased from that vendor (as well as a Tilshead with a JU stem (rare)). One of the Astleys from that vendor had "hand cut" on the stem as well as one from another vendor. The other 2 Astleys have no such notation. Is this a way to date/authenticate or just another case of stamps being bought?

All the Astleys I have do display nice grain and all smoke very well. One, sold as straight grain but with no such stamping by another vendor, has a 9ct gold band done by Les wood in 1996 (hallmarked as such). No sure if this helps the discussion but we be interested in feedback.s-l1600 (10).jpg
 
Aug 1, 2012
4,898
5,727
USA
Back when the whole thing blew up here I posted in 2 (maybe 3) threads that ended up putting the provenance of Astley pipes in question. The general consensus after those threads was that the early Astley pipes were truly great pieces from great manufacturers. However there was a period where a different owner stamped pretty much anything and sold it under the same guise. There is little to nothing in the way of nomenclature to distinguish between the two eras or to betweens specific pipes. It comes down to the judging the pipe on it's own merits. Things such as stem construction and characteristic bowl shaping come into play there.

Some days I wish I hadn't brought some of the inconsistencies to light as it cost me some opportunities to sell my pipes at a better price.

Either way, know what you might be getting into when it comes to Astley pipes and hopefully you can get a good one like I did.
 

greeneyes

Lifer
Jun 5, 2018
2,339
12,853
Some days I wish I hadn't brought some of the inconsistencies to light as it cost me some opportunities to sell my pipes at a better price.
Interesting reflection.
All the Astleys I have do display nice grain and all smoke very well.
I think intuitively there is a line drawn, between pipes that are of obviously good or outstanding quality, and those that are not. It appears, at least on the basis of your photograph and the description of the others you give, that your pipes are of excellent briar with very desirable grain, and that they have been made with every attention to detail. Again, intuitively, I'd be inclined to believe these pipes are genuine.

Put another way, there are several pipes in circulation that bear an "Astleys" stamp and have a knockabout, common appearance. The attention to detail is lacking and sloppy workmanship is evident upon close inspection (e.g. crooked stampings, uneven depth of stamping).

This is true for a few other brands as well. It seems as if the stamp was put on "any ol' thing" and perhaps that a clear history of the markings and provenance is unavailable. From the standpoint of a collector I just tend to avoid nebulous areas like this, unless a pipe happens to appear particularly well constructed (and is thus likely to be a "good smoker").

In all, considering the high quality of your briars, I'd say you have little to worry about.
 
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hauntedmyst

Lifer
Feb 1, 2010
4,014
20,805
Chicago
I only have one Astley. It's from the "questionable" period. I don't care if a slow kid in Wyoming made it in shop class, it's one of my favorite pipes. You hate to see a brand tarnished though. Even if his Astley practices weren't straight, I appreciate him keeping Barry Jones employed. He was a master.


004-002-17584.3076.jpg
 

mau1

Lifer
Jan 5, 2018
1,124
839
Ontario, Canada
I have a number of nice Astley pipes, all with the 109 Jermyn St, London stamp with one exception.
It's stamped 108 Jermyn St, London.
I went looking and found an advertisement for Astley's Pipes with the address listed as 108/111 Jermyn St, London S.W.1. (Piccadilly Circus End). I assume the establishments original showroom was the 109 location with expansion as business growth dictated.
I was glad to see that the advertisement supports the stamping.
 

mau1

Lifer
Jan 5, 2018
1,124
839
Ontario, Canada
I just picked up a 72W, a large pipe with an amazing saddle bit stem that is so nice to smoke. Dark stain and very pretty grain with a Lovat feel, I will always have my eye out for more of these.
Don, you old hawk-eye, you got that 72 W for a steal. Beautiful staining and grain! Good snag.
 

jguss

Lifer
Jul 7, 2013
2,717
7,567
I just picked up a 72W, a large pipe with an amazing saddle bit stem that is so nice to smoke. Dark stain and very pretty grain with a Lovat feel, I will always have my eye out for more of these.

Hi Don, as you may already know the "W" part of your 72W means a saddle stem, or in Astley-speak a "wafered stem briar". I think about 10-12 of the shapes in the Astley catalog were available with the wafer if desired. As you can imagine it was sold as "a great help for those with dentures." Post a pic of your pipe if you can, I'd love to see it. Jon
 

donjgiles

Lifer
Apr 14, 2018
1,571
2,526
Hi Don, as you may already know the "W" part of your 72W means a saddle stem, or in Astley-speak a "wafered stem briar". I think about 10-12 of the shapes in the Astley catalog were available with the wafer if desired. As you can imagine it was sold as "a great help for those with dentures." Post a pic of your pipe if you can, I'd love to see it. Jon
The stem is a dream, almost like a older Comoy stem. It just seems to disappear during the smoke, quite lovely even though it is a rather large pipe.
I will be happy to shoot an image tomorrow, gives me a good excuse to drag the gear out! Thank you for the info, you are a very valuable resource to all of us and I do appreciate your knowledge and willingness to share.
:)
 
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jguss

Lifer
Jul 7, 2013
2,717
7,567
The stem is a dream, almost like a older Comoy stem. It just seems to disappear during the smoke, quite lovely even though it is a rather large pipe.
I will be happy to shoot an image tomorrow, gives me a good excuse to drag the gear out! Thank you for the info, you are a very valuable resource to all of us and I do appreciate your knowledge and willingness to share.
:)

Thank you Don. I'll try to dig out some of my Astley research when my day job permits. As is so often the case, the public version of Astley's origins is false in almost every detail that is subject to verification; the company apparently dated from 1916, and its founder was never named Astley. The true story however is fascinating. I haven't looked into it for several years, and unfortunately many of my files are in my "work" office and therefore inaccessible thanks to closures precipitated by the coronavirus. I have fragments in my "home" office and will see what I can pull together.