Are Pipe Makers Looney?

[Sig]

I dont look often, but I occasionally check out Facebook. I've never made a post, dont have many friends, and comment rarely.
Looking through some of the pipe groups, I see a LOT of people are now making pipes.
Many have just started in the last few years, but they sell their pipes for $600-$3000.
It used to be a carver would make a name for themselves, then blow the prices up.
My first Pietenpauw was $24. My first Chris Askwith was $75. My first Larrysson was $80. My first Rad Davis was $100. You get my point.
Now there are dozens and dozens of people making average looking pipes, and asking ridiculous money. You cant really blame them, its the customers buying them.
Most are foreign, many from the Middle East by looking at their names......is that racist?
Who on earth is buying pipes from guys who have been making pipes for 7 months?
Another thing I noticed, but need to do some more research, many of these look like the $45-$125 pipes from China....like Muxaing.
But the sellers have web pages from NOT China, and they say they made them. Most just have FB pages and do 100% of sales on FB.
And im not saying there are a few, there are many dozens of brand new pipe makers selling $1000 pipes on FB.
You need to contact them for prices, which I have been doing.
I honestly believe they may be selling inexpensive Chinese pipes for astronomical prices.
Im going to dig some more.
Many of their pipes look exactly like Muxaing and other Chinese pipes.

 

[huntertrw]

Are Pipe Makers Looney?​

Apparently some are:

 

[The Benedictine]

 

[Waning Embers]

It's a running joke among the older pipe makers.

 

[fireground_piper]

$24 won’t even cover the cost of the briar block these days.

 

[Alejo R.]

It's the dynamic of the internet, and I'd be happy if it only applied to pipemakers. It's the idea that everything is equal and that study and experience have no value. We're losing traditional values of effort, learning, and education in favor of educating ourselves on YouTube. There are guys with enough balls and nerve to try to sell a pipe for 500 even if they only have a year of experience, and there's an even larger group of fools willing to pay that price because the seller has a large following.

 

[bootlegpipes]

Can you name some of the carvers who just started and are now in that $600-$3000 range? I’ve not seen people get to those prices that have been carving for less than 5 years. Of course it’s fine by me if people want to pay that but I’m with you, Sig. It seems really high.

 

[xrundog]

20 years ago I was restoring/updating antique cigar humidors and selling them for $200-$300. They sold okay, but nobody was breaking my door down. A guy explained to me that people won’t buy a really wonderful product at a fair price. He said I should be charging at least double and the would sell faster. I didn’t try it. I transitioned to smoking pipes instead.
People would rather overpay for what they believe to be top tier. The actual quality doesn’t even matter to a lot of people.
People are dumb.

 

[sablebrush52]

20 years ago I was restoring/updating antique cigar humidors and selling them for $200-$300. They sold okay, but nobody was breaking my door down. A guy explained to me that people won’t buy a really wonderful product at a fair price. He said I should be charging at least double and the would sell faster. I didn’t try it. I transitioned to smoking pipes instead.
People would rather overpay for what they believe to be top tier. The actual quality doesn’t even matter to a lot of people.
People are dumb.

I had a similar experience with regard to my career as a matte painter when I first started out. Like a lot of people trying to establish a career, I priced my work very reasonably, about $1000 per painting and was struggling to find customers.
I was hired to provide matte paintings for a commercial and the producer looked at my bill and told me that I was undercharging. He then took my invoice, tore it up, and told me to redo it at $3000 per painting, which he said was still a bargain considering the quality of my work. He also told me that charging more would make me more believable to the market and that I would get more customers. As I gained more credits I could slowly raise my prices but to start at this level. He was absolutely right. Within 6 months my biggest problem was meeting demand for my services. After a few years I was charging $10,000 per painting and was busier than a three legged dog with fleas.
Pricing is an art. Too low and people don’t take you seriously. Too high and people go elsewhere. You need to know market rates.

 

[daveinlax]

In my time in the hobby I’ve seen the basic learning curve go from years to days.

 

[Sig]

Can you name some of the carvers who just started and are now in that $600-$3000 range? I’ve not seen people get to those prices that have been carving for less than 5 years. Of course it’s fine by me if people want to pay that but I’m with you, Sig. It seems really high.

Just go to FB and look for the guys with ME names. Most wear white gloves while handling their pipes for sale. They cannot post prices, you need to contact them. Most only have FB pages, no website, no reviews, no testimonials.....
There are FB pages strictly for pipe sellers. There are countless guys selling pipes.
Here is 2 minutes of looking, they are endless.

 

[Roach1]

Simon Bosko is of LCS Briars fame and has a great Reputation. He sells high quailty pipes. Watch him on YT he posts daily.

 

[Sigmund]

Some people think an awfal lot of themselves.

 

[Sigmund]

That said, I do appreciate craftsmen...however, as I built a business on handmade musical accessories I dont have much patience for the get rich quick crowd. Yes, I charge a premium but I also have over 20 years of experience to back that up. I started selling at a very afforable rate and over the years I raised my prices accordingly.

Meanwhile, if its any consolation, guys who do this and crank up prices thinking they are important simply dont last. Just like any other field they make a splash and later drown in a sea of their own narcissism. I cant even begin to count how many in my arena have come and gone becuase they dont have patience or the business dicipline to pay their dues.

Id gladly pay fair prices to someone up and comming if they did work I enjoyed. However, I will not pay prices to those who are in their formative years but think they have arrived.

Most of you who hang around here know I love Kai pipes. He is a guy who has paid his dues and I have bought grade A jewel of Denmark pipes for the price some of these guys are trying to get. That doesnt mean their pipes are not good...but still... So @Sig I definitely am with you on this one.

And yes, some customers are stupid...however, most are not. Once these guys exhaust their clueless audience they run dry and broke.

 

[Sig]

That said, I do appreciate craftsmen...however, as I built a business on handmade musical accessories I dont have much patience for the get rich quick crowd. Yes, I charge a premium but I also have over 20 years of experience to back that up. I started selling at a very afforable rate and over the years I raised my prices accordingly.

Meanwhile, if its any consolation, guys who do this and crank up prices thinking they are important simply dont last. Just like any other field they make a splash and later drown in a sea of their own narcissism. I cant even begin to count how many in my arena have come and gone becuase they dont have patience or the business dicipline to pay their dues.

Id gladly pay fair prices to someone up and comming if they did work I enjoyed. However, I will not pay prices to those who are in their formative years but think they have arrived.

Most of you who hang around here know I love Kai pipes. He is a guy who has paid his dues and I have bought grade A jewel of Denmark pipes for the price some of these guys are trying to get. That doesnt mean their pipes are not good...but still... So @Sig I definitely am with you on this one.

And yes, some customers are stupid...however, most are not. Once these guys exhaust their clueless audience they run dry and broke.

100% agree.
Im trying to find the exact seller and pipe who gave me a $2650 price on his very average looking pipe.
He sent me a message in very broken English, but what I got from it was that the pipe was made from 100 year old Turkish briar...whatever that means. The stem is 100% Acrylic, no Delrin tenon. It has a 9mm filter. The bowl was 15mm wide, 24mm deep, which is very small in my opinion. That's not even 1 inch deep.
I don't know if he is selling any pipes, but he is a "Top Contributor" on the International Pipes FB pages. So hes at least posting a ton of pipes.

 

[greeneyes]

I go to the Chicago Pipe Show each year and though I have zero interest in "new" pipes, I sit at the tables with apparently famous modern pipe makers and there is a thriving commerce and following there. I would have to assume that the worlds of art, furniture making, comic books and wine are the same way.

 

[Sig]

Simon Bosko is of LCS Briars fame and has a great Reputation. He sells high quailty pipes. Watch him on YT he posts daily.

Like I said, this was literally 2 minutes of looking in one group. Those were all just from yesterday, in one group, there a a bunch of groups. There are 100s or more that if you Google them, it goes straight to FB.
My point is, "back in the day" there were maybe 3-4 new pipe makers a year. Now there are hundreds.
Ive also noticed a lot of these guys are making pipes in shapes made famous by legendary pipe makers. They dont even hide it, they say right up front this is an "interpretation" of a Hans Former Nielson shape, but its identical in shape and size, not an interpretation.
The ONLY time I've seen that is when Lars Ivarsson made a few of his father Sixtens shapes years ago, as a tribute. Most of these guys are making "Danish" freehand shapes. Which makes me believe they cannot make traditional shapes, which are difficult to get right. In my opinion, if you cannot make a perfect Billiard, you should not be charging $1000+.
I feel bad for the truly talented guys trying to make it. Many most likely get buried in the mountain of new carvers.
Just as a sorta thing......
When I started rescuing old cars from the crusher almost 40 years ago. I was going through them pretty quickly. It was just a hobby, but buyers were waiting in line. Now, everyone and their brother are doing it. If I can find a survivor car, I have to advertise country wide for a buyer. About 5 years ago it became very popular for car guys with basic knowledge of auto repair to find snd fix old cars. Which is great, that's why I started doing it decades ago. Its tough to watch a 1966 El Camino in great shape get crushed!
Sorry for the rambling in this response, it was just easier than making another post.

 

[Peter Peachfuzz]

i have 2 pipes from Brian Orton who btw has very nice website. It's been a few years but I doubt I paid much over $200 for either. One kind looks like crackled black stick with moss going from it. The other a kind of stubby poker with a kind of petrified blackest look.

 

[Sig]

i have 2 pipes from Brian Orton who btw has very nice website. It's been a few years but I doubt I paid much over $200 for either. One kind looks like crackled black stick with moss going from it. The other a kind of stubby poker with a kind of petrified blackest look.

Just another in a sea of new FB carvers. His pipes seem to be in the $250-$450 range.

 

[Peter Peachfuzz]

Okie Dokie... Define 'new'

He was on Kevin's podcast back in Apr 2017