Are All Pipemakers Odd People?
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Sorry, I was being odd in my original post. :lol:
I think most pipesmokers generally march to the beat of a different drummer. Those that make pipes with the intent to sell them have to be a bit off to begin with. I can say for myself that it's true for me that I'm a terrible businessman. I hardly know the first thing about the business end of pipes and muddle through. I know a fair share of pipemaker's who are the same way and prefer to take the 50% ish hit and just sell all their work through a retailer. That may well be the case here.
It may be something else altogether. It has been my experience that there are a lot of "fishers" in the pipe community who ask for things like photos of different angles and measurements of different things and never end up purchasing anything from you. Now, there's nothing wrong with fishing. Don't get me wrong. But, from the maker's aspect consider this. If a guy makes a pipe with the intent of taking a 50% retail hit (which is the standard) on a $400 pipe, he's only going to make $200 minus his own costs. Let's say his costs in material on this pipe is $50. He's now down to $150. Now you have to figure shop costs and typical business overhead like advertising and whatnot figured into each pipe. Let's shoot low and say it's $50 per pipe. Now we're down to $100 profit on this pipe. Let's say it took him 8 hours to complete the pipe. So he's made $12.50 per hour. Could be worse but if he spends anymore time on this pipe than necessary the retail deal becomes unprofitable. It's a gamble at this point to spend more time because the effort may or may not end in a sale that he profits 100%. A young pipemaker needs exposure more than anything and he gets that through retailers like smokingpipes. That's his priority at this point even more so than 100% profit and it's actually a smart way to go. I can speak from experience because I've taken a different path and avoided retailers preferring to sell directly from my website and a few retailers on consignment where I don't lose as much profit. My work is still relatively unknown in the pipe collecting community and it's reflected in my sales. I also follow a lot of "dead leads" providing photos and measurements that rarely end in sales. Did I mention that I'm a terrible businessman? :lol:
I think most pipesmokers generally march to the beat of a different drummer. Those that make pipes with the intent to sell them have to be a bit off to begin with. I can say for myself that it's true for me that I'm a terrible businessman. I hardly know the first thing about the business end of pipes and muddle through. I know a fair share of pipemaker's who are the same way and prefer to take the 50% ish hit and just sell all their work through a retailer. That may well be the case here.
It may be something else altogether. It has been my experience that there are a lot of "fishers" in the pipe community who ask for things like photos of different angles and measurements of different things and never end up purchasing anything from you. Now, there's nothing wrong with fishing. Don't get me wrong. But, from the maker's aspect consider this. If a guy makes a pipe with the intent of taking a 50% retail hit (which is the standard) on a $400 pipe, he's only going to make $200 minus his own costs. Let's say his costs in material on this pipe is $50. He's now down to $150. Now you have to figure shop costs and typical business overhead like advertising and whatnot figured into each pipe. Let's shoot low and say it's $50 per pipe. Now we're down to $100 profit on this pipe. Let's say it took him 8 hours to complete the pipe. So he's made $12.50 per hour. Could be worse but if he spends anymore time on this pipe than necessary the retail deal becomes unprofitable. It's a gamble at this point to spend more time because the effort may or may not end in a sale that he profits 100%. A young pipemaker needs exposure more than anything and he gets that through retailers like smokingpipes. That's his priority at this point even more so than 100% profit and it's actually a smart way to go. I can speak from experience because I've taken a different path and avoided retailers preferring to sell directly from my website and a few retailers on consignment where I don't lose as much profit. My work is still relatively unknown in the pipe collecting community and it's reflected in my sales. I also follow a lot of "dead leads" providing photos and measurements that rarely end in sales. Did I mention that I'm a terrible businessman? :lol:
I forgot to mention that one of the perks of selling through a retailer is that you don't have spend time taking photos and measurements and managing a website.
I wont ask you to take a picture but if you can find someone under 20 have them post it, they is phone junkies . Peck I cant find the big red button on the phone . Heelllllpp Mr Wizard .
Oh, and I'm not defending the odd maker. I just know a lot of them who have the same philosophy and thought I'd try to explain their thinking. I'm the guy who snaps the photo. :wink:
This is the case in ALL crafts and arts. According to the Crafts Report, the highest end designers for any craft in the field make less than $15,000 a year, and most don't even come close. I have a friend who deals only in high end diamonds and platinum, his work runs in the five and six digits, but he doesn't make much more than ten gran a year.
It's not necessarily that we're bad at business, but that the market here stinks.
My biggest sales are to Asia. They never flinch at a quote and pay up front always. And, they always buy if they write ask a question about my work. There are cultural differences that I can appreciate. I can see how pipe makers would really want to entertain this market. However, I really like my native sales, because I can hear back from them and build relationships.
I hope I'm more Dr Seuss crazy, lol.
It's not necessarily that we're bad at business, but that the market here stinks.
My biggest sales are to Asia. They never flinch at a quote and pay up front always. And, they always buy if they write ask a question about my work. There are cultural differences that I can appreciate. I can see how pipe makers would really want to entertain this market. However, I really like my native sales, because I can hear back from them and build relationships.
I hope I'm more Dr Seuss crazy, lol.
Yes creative people are usually quirky and/or eccentric, I know I am being a UX and IxD designer, we are all antisocial to a certain degree.
Peck you might want to talk to the pipe carver and tell him to start selling directly to make more profit from his work. Cutting the middleman solves lots of problems for new people in the business.
Cheers,
Chris
Peck you might want to talk to the pipe carver and tell him to start selling directly to make more profit from his work. Cutting the middleman solves lots of problems for new people in the business.
Cheers,
Chris
I agree with Wayne's reasoning on this. My view would be to take the friggin' picture. Then instead of being a lowly paid pipe maker, i become a highly paid photographer....
The actual issue might be that communicating in English for this particular guy is difficult.....
The actual issue might be that communicating in English for this particular guy is difficult.....
Wayne -
great post there, thanks for taking the time articulating such fine nuanced points,
it makes much more sense to me now...especially this bit:
Smokingpipes has a somewhat exclusive stable of pipemakers so that ups stature to be there and the maker has worldwide free advertising as well, giving people a sense that the maker is "bonafide" and all that builds a solid foundation to launch into the higher realms on down the road.
It brings to mind also the role of an important retailer like SPC, how in a way they are similar to a renowned art gallery, being somewhat pivotal in the process of establishing the "great names" --- like if you're a visual artist and the Saatchi gallery starts buying your stuff, it's like an automatic stamp of approval and the market responds accordingly.
But there has always existed a critical tension between the artists and galleries too, especially concerning the monetary percentage rates, and could in some cases be portrayed as exploitative or parasitic.
The recent thread about "instagram pipemakers" illustrates a new commerce with a new media, a pipemaker can shoot thru the roof and become viral on social media and carry big weight, even if the maker isn't exactly recognized by "important collectors" and circumnavigate the whole political process altogether yet cultivate a broad base of eager patrons.
I'll quit rambling now...
great post there, thanks for taking the time articulating such fine nuanced points,
it makes much more sense to me now...especially this bit:
I hadn't thought of that angle and I think you're right about it.
Smokingpipes has a somewhat exclusive stable of pipemakers so that ups stature to be there and the maker has worldwide free advertising as well, giving people a sense that the maker is "bonafide" and all that builds a solid foundation to launch into the higher realms on down the road.
It brings to mind also the role of an important retailer like SPC, how in a way they are similar to a renowned art gallery, being somewhat pivotal in the process of establishing the "great names" --- like if you're a visual artist and the Saatchi gallery starts buying your stuff, it's like an automatic stamp of approval and the market responds accordingly.
But there has always existed a critical tension between the artists and galleries too, especially concerning the monetary percentage rates, and could in some cases be portrayed as exploitative or parasitic.
The recent thread about "instagram pipemakers" illustrates a new commerce with a new media, a pipemaker can shoot thru the roof and become viral on social media and carry big weight, even if the maker isn't exactly recognized by "important collectors" and circumnavigate the whole political process altogether yet cultivate a broad base of eager patrons.
I'll quit rambling now...
I think Wayne pretty much nailed it.
My take on this situation is that this guy is less concerned with customer service and more concerned with the notoriety that comes with having pipes listed on the #1 site for doing so. I wouldn't say it's a black and white issue with being right or wrong in that mentality.
On one side he has a focused business sense in that he is trying to meet the demands of volume that come with listing on smokingpipes. Also, he is focused on the long run game instead of the short run. Smokingpipes will make his pipes a 'household name', so to speak. He casts a larger net with smokingpipes than with individual customers who (as Wayne mentioned) are mainly tire-kickers. More visibility = more sales.
On the other side, I think it's hard to spurn your customers. Personally I feel that aiming for notoriety instead of tailoring to your customers can be a little cold, and be a turn-off for future sales. Some pipemakers are totally business sense. They are trying to put groceries on the table; can't fault them for that. Other pipemakers are really passionate about pipemaking. It's fun for them, and they take pleasure in the interaction with customers.
I've noticed that no two pipemakers are the same in this regard.
I've also noticed that many young pipe makers are very internet focused while older pipemakers have a tougher time with the internet. Young people were able to grow with the internet since it's infancy stages and it's easier for them to get visibility in that way. For the older pipemaker, it can be like trying to read French. They don't understand how to use it effectively, and don't understand it's value. Some of those older pipemakers would rather not make extra work for themselves on the internet when they could be spending that time making pipes; and prefer email and phone conversations to facebook pages and instagram.
To answer the question of the post: Are all pipemakers odd people? I think yes. They are odd but not necessarily mentally removed, and I rather like it that way. Differences are the spice of life. I think to an extent all pipe smokers are a touch eccentric and odd. But hey, that's not a bad thing! We are good company and a tight knit group, we pipe smokers.
My take on this situation is that this guy is less concerned with customer service and more concerned with the notoriety that comes with having pipes listed on the #1 site for doing so. I wouldn't say it's a black and white issue with being right or wrong in that mentality.
On one side he has a focused business sense in that he is trying to meet the demands of volume that come with listing on smokingpipes. Also, he is focused on the long run game instead of the short run. Smokingpipes will make his pipes a 'household name', so to speak. He casts a larger net with smokingpipes than with individual customers who (as Wayne mentioned) are mainly tire-kickers. More visibility = more sales.
On the other side, I think it's hard to spurn your customers. Personally I feel that aiming for notoriety instead of tailoring to your customers can be a little cold, and be a turn-off for future sales. Some pipemakers are totally business sense. They are trying to put groceries on the table; can't fault them for that. Other pipemakers are really passionate about pipemaking. It's fun for them, and they take pleasure in the interaction with customers.
I've noticed that no two pipemakers are the same in this regard.
I've also noticed that many young pipe makers are very internet focused while older pipemakers have a tougher time with the internet. Young people were able to grow with the internet since it's infancy stages and it's easier for them to get visibility in that way. For the older pipemaker, it can be like trying to read French. They don't understand how to use it effectively, and don't understand it's value. Some of those older pipemakers would rather not make extra work for themselves on the internet when they could be spending that time making pipes; and prefer email and phone conversations to facebook pages and instagram.
To answer the question of the post: Are all pipemakers odd people? I think yes. They are odd but not necessarily mentally removed, and I rather like it that way. Differences are the spice of life. I think to an extent all pipe smokers are a touch eccentric and odd. But hey, that's not a bad thing! We are good company and a tight knit group, we pipe smokers.
I understand the idea of using smoking pipes to build his rep up, but maybe then he should wait to post the pics from SP on that certain, well known social network? Then he can still garner the flash from SP without drawing questions for extra pictures from potential buyers like Peck?
That's true, Peck. The biggest downside to this maker's business model is that they may never develop the relationships with their customers to know if you're a tire-kicker or a serious buyer. It's a definite trade off.
Peck, my guess is that a little conversation about your fine stable of pipes might soften this guy
up so he'd take an interest in commissioning a pipe for you. This isn't what he's used to doing, but
I suspect he can do the math. After a quiet interval, I'd try him again, with no pressure, and again
later if need be. You might get your pipe, at a good price, and educate him a little on the business
side of pipe carving. It might be an interesting experiment, and the effort costs nothing, until you
make a deal.
up so he'd take an interest in commissioning a pipe for you. This isn't what he's used to doing, but
I suspect he can do the math. After a quiet interval, I'd try him again, with no pressure, and again
later if need be. You might get your pipe, at a good price, and educate him a little on the business
side of pipe carving. It might be an interesting experiment, and the effort costs nothing, until you
make a deal.
Peck, I would have taken that picture with my shitty iPhone 4 camera lens, let you see the pipe is testicle free, then sold you that pipe for $500, without hesitation.
It depends. If the pipemaker already has some notoriety and has a lot of traffic to his website and has no problems selling pipes then absolutely. If he only gets a dozen hits on his website a day then he's not going to sell many pipes. Online retailers get thousands of hits per day on their website. The consumer rules the market. If the consumers purchased from pipemaker's who put the extra effort into managing a webpage, taking photo's and measurements, interacting with the public, and selling their pipes for a bit less than the retailers you would see more pipemakers going that route. :wink:But Wayne, isn't it in the pipemaker's interest to take a set of photos, do the measurements and post it up on his website? Even if you have a bunch of tire kickers coming around asking for photos and measurements, you could always direct them to the webpage to look at the specifications themselves. I'm no professional pipemaker or even a professional salesman, but I've sold hundreds of pipes between reddit, fleabay and here and while there are numerous dead leads, few of them have to do with taking additional pictures and measurements. And I can imagine for twice the profit, the prospect of a few dead leads is completely worth the hassle. But that's just me - I don't sell to keep food on the table, it's just a side hobby of mine, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. ::
My tamper business does NOT put food on the table. Basically it is a self supporting hobby. My 15 year old daughter takes lots of the pictures that I post. I feel I am reasonably good with a lathe, but lousy with a camera. I could take the time / energy to learn, but I would rather farm it out to my daughter.
I understand the pipemaker's perspective. Unless I have dedicated an area for permanent photography setup, I need to stop turning, in order to take a picture. Also, my photography skills would lose the sale, not gain a sale.
Winton
I understand the pipemaker's perspective. Unless I have dedicated an area for permanent photography setup, I need to stop turning, in order to take a picture. Also, my photography skills would lose the sale, not gain a sale.
Winton
One of the pipemakers I like looking at on instagram is Eric Gainey,
he's very active and has been consistently been putting out some nice lookin' pipes.
His stuff seems to sell rather quickly and he's gotta lotta eyeballs looking.
He has sold stuff thru Danish Pipe Shop and Pipes Down Under, but his instagram page seems to be a great venue for gettin' stuff off the shelf and into patron hands, I can understand how this business model can work so well and also generate buzz, and the trend towards this indy "social media" avenue seems to be growing.
http://instagram.com/ericgainey
He's a Georgia boy like me so I had to get one of his pipes,
I gotta wide mouth billiard and it's the doggies danglies!
He spent some shop time with Grant Batson and is a strong up-and-comer!
he's very active and has been consistently been putting out some nice lookin' pipes.
His stuff seems to sell rather quickly and he's gotta lotta eyeballs looking.
He has sold stuff thru Danish Pipe Shop and Pipes Down Under, but his instagram page seems to be a great venue for gettin' stuff off the shelf and into patron hands, I can understand how this business model can work so well and also generate buzz, and the trend towards this indy "social media" avenue seems to be growing.
http://instagram.com/ericgainey
He's a Georgia boy like me so I had to get one of his pipes,
I gotta wide mouth billiard and it's the doggies danglies!
He spent some shop time with Grant Batson and is a strong up-and-comer!
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