Any Mason's in the House?
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The brethren are welcome to join us at:
http://pipesmagazine.com/groups/freemasons
and hopefully get some conversation going.
C&F,
Jay
http://pipesmagazine.com/groups/freemasons
and hopefully get some conversation going.
C&F,
Jay
"The Catholic Church has squashed it's grievance with masons..."
For sure not the case.
In 1983, Prefect Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, with the personal approval of Pope John Paul II, issued a Declaration on Masonic Associations, which reiterated the Church's objections to Freemasonry.[29] The Declaration states:
"The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion...." and "...the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association(s) remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden."[29]
Continued ban after the Declaration[edit]
In the 1985, the U.S. Catholic Conference Bishops' Committee on Pastoral Research and Practices concluded in its Letter to U.S. Bishops Concerning Masonry that "the principles and basic rituals of Masonry embody a naturalistic religion, active participation in which is incompatible with Christian faith and practice."
On September 15, 2000, the Reverend Thomas Anslow, Judicial Vicar of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles, wrote a letter to David Patterson, Executive Secretary of the Masonic Service Bureau of Los Angeles. In reply to the question "whether a practicing Catholic may join a Masonic Lodge" Father Anslow said that "at least for Catholics in the United States, I believe the answer is probably yes".[30] This letter was publicly retracted by Father Anslow on February 12, 2002, with the explanation that his analysis was faulty.[31] He said that Freemasonry fostered a "supraconfessional humanitarian" conception of the divine "that neutralizes or replaces the faith dimension of our relationship with God."[31]
On March 1, 2007, Archbishop Gianfranco Girotti, the regent of the Apostolic Penitentiary made a statement that membership in Masonic organisations "remains forbidden" to Catholics and called on priests who had declared themselves to be Freemasons to be disciplined by their direct superiors.[32] It was in reaction to the declaration that the 85 year old priest Rosario Francesco Esposito had declared himself a Freemason even though he was once commissioned by the Church to study the Church’s teaching on masonry.[33]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_ban_of_Freemasonry
For sure not the case.
In 1983, Prefect Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, with the personal approval of Pope John Paul II, issued a Declaration on Masonic Associations, which reiterated the Church's objections to Freemasonry.[29] The Declaration states:
"The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion...." and "...the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association(s) remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden."[29]
Continued ban after the Declaration[edit]
In the 1985, the U.S. Catholic Conference Bishops' Committee on Pastoral Research and Practices concluded in its Letter to U.S. Bishops Concerning Masonry that "the principles and basic rituals of Masonry embody a naturalistic religion, active participation in which is incompatible with Christian faith and practice."
On September 15, 2000, the Reverend Thomas Anslow, Judicial Vicar of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles, wrote a letter to David Patterson, Executive Secretary of the Masonic Service Bureau of Los Angeles. In reply to the question "whether a practicing Catholic may join a Masonic Lodge" Father Anslow said that "at least for Catholics in the United States, I believe the answer is probably yes".[30] This letter was publicly retracted by Father Anslow on February 12, 2002, with the explanation that his analysis was faulty.[31] He said that Freemasonry fostered a "supraconfessional humanitarian" conception of the divine "that neutralizes or replaces the faith dimension of our relationship with God."[31]
On March 1, 2007, Archbishop Gianfranco Girotti, the regent of the Apostolic Penitentiary made a statement that membership in Masonic organisations "remains forbidden" to Catholics and called on priests who had declared themselves to be Freemasons to be disciplined by their direct superiors.[32] It was in reaction to the declaration that the 85 year old priest Rosario Francesco Esposito had declared himself a Freemason even though he was once commissioned by the Church to study the Church’s teaching on masonry.[33]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_ban_of_Freemasonry
My uncle is/was the head of his Lodge or whatever it is called. I call him the Grand Pooh-Bah. Regardless, the o/p is excited and I hope it works out well for him.
Gemtlemen, for all our sakes, proceed--or better still, terminate--this line of discussion with caution. Catholicism is indeed opposed, rightly or wrongly, to the tenets of Freemasonry, and I'd hate to see a cyber war break out in this forum over the differences we Catholics have with Masons. It could become a very uncivilized discussion.
"It could become a very uncivilized discussion"
It has not and doubt it will become uncivilized. From what I see, there is unanimous support and well wishes to the O/P.
It has not and doubt it will become uncivilized. From what I see, there is unanimous support and well wishes to the O/P.
We are all a group of gentile and sophisticated men, united by a very sophiticated and respected hobby, so I'm sure you are right, jack. I only wanted to point out the potential danger because threads have, in the past, been shut down when tempers flaired. But of course, if we keep the discussion civilized, as it has so far, then we have nothing to fear. I'm a Catholic, as some of you know, but my best friend of over thirty years is a Mason of the 32nd degree, and we simply avoid the topic of Freemasonry.
By all means, let's not pass moral judgment based upon the vagaries of politics or religion. Because then the discussion would become about political or religious truth and thereby about the justification of that judgment. Internet forums are a poor place to present fully reasoned viewpoints.
Just to clear up a point, Masonic bodies willingly accept people of all faiths (well, not sure about Muslims, but that's a whole 'nother discussion). As such we would gladly accept a Catholic; any objections or resistance comes from the Catholic church. My wife has several Catholic friends who are aghast that I am a Mason!
Maxx: that's our coat of arms! Are you saying that is yours, as well? If so, we have MUCH in common!
Maxx: that's our coat of arms! Are you saying that is yours, as well? If so, we have MUCH in common!
I am sorry to have posted this, except to those of you who have wished me well. I am just excited to join a group of men whose basic belief, for at least a few hundred years, is to be good men. The only I know so far about Freemasonry is that after joining this ancient, noble, and honorable brotherhood, I will die knowing that I will have been a better man and shown goodness and love and honor to my fellow man and community.
The tenets of Freemasonry are perfectly in sync with any of the Abrahamic faiths (and are not foreign to Eastern spiritualities as well) because they are rooted in Judeo-Christian morality. If Roman Catholics, Southern Baptists, and other Christian objectors to Freemasonry knew what the fraternity actually teaches, and saw how much Jewish and Christian Scripture is quoted in the initiatory rituals of Freemasonry, they would feel less of a need to reject the fraternity. I would hope.
The Vatican's opposition to Freemasonry dates to the 1730s, when the fraternity began to spread from the British Isles to the European continent. Being a force of the Enlightenment, Freemasonry was a natural opponent of church-state duopoly, ergo the Church's antipathy. Within the lodge itself, Freemasonry's teachings do not force any creed on its members, and members are enjoined from discussing their sectarian (and partisan political) preferences inside the lodge, a handy method of facilitating friendships among people who disagree on these vital matters.
The first text of Masonic jurisprudence, published in 1723, prominently and clearly explains this "don't ask, don't tell" thinking:
I can explain a great deal more in far deeper detail, but maybe that should be done here.
The Vatican's opposition to Freemasonry dates to the 1730s, when the fraternity began to spread from the British Isles to the European continent. Being a force of the Enlightenment, Freemasonry was a natural opponent of church-state duopoly, ergo the Church's antipathy. Within the lodge itself, Freemasonry's teachings do not force any creed on its members, and members are enjoined from discussing their sectarian (and partisan political) preferences inside the lodge, a handy method of facilitating friendships among people who disagree on these vital matters.
The first text of Masonic jurisprudence, published in 1723, prominently and clearly explains this "don't ask, don't tell" thinking:
Believe me, there have been, and are today, plenty of Roman Catholic clergy in Freemasonry.
I can explain a great deal more in far deeper detail, but maybe that should be done here.
Actually, I find this line of discussion interesting as I do the Masons. Strangely, Masons are sometime portrayed as bad guys, and I wonder why. In the movie "From Hell," Jack the Ripper is portrayed as a Mason, and Prof. Moriarty in "The League of Exceptional Gentlemen" is alsom a Mason. I wonder why they are picked on? And wherever, my evey wish that you enjoy and profit from your new membership as a Mason.
I will ckeck out the Church Catechism and see if it articulates what problem it has with Masons. I suspect it has something to do with secret societies, but I'll look into that..
I will ckeck out the Church Catechism and see if it articulates what problem it has with Masons. I suspect it has something to do with secret societies, but I'll look into that..
S
seadogontheland
Guest
I think the division may be rooted in the Catholic church loosing its followers to a group which promotes critical thought. With this in mind, the antiquity of Catholic thought/ideology would be challenged and the Masons have been considered a threat.
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