Adam Smith, Penzance and a declaration

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perdurabo

Lifer
Jun 3, 2015
3,305
1,581
That's funny Jeffery, I spent $20 on less than 2oz. Tin, I'll let it age and try it.
Mixture 79, great joke, there.
Buy the stuff if you want it, don't buy it if it's not in the right price range. I don't see what the big deal is. Unless it's the only tobacco you like. At that point, I think you can say it's no longer a hobby, it's addiction. And of course there is a hell of a lot worst than being addicted to tobacco.

 

hiplainsdrifter

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 8, 2012
977
14
These things are simply a question of manners and consideration for others.
No, they aren't. If you buy a second hand vehicle from some one, are you going to get mad if you find out they made money on the deal? Some of you seem to have a really difficult time telling the difference between a business transaction and a generous gesture. I have seen forum members both sell something for profit and give tobacco away. Your attitude is either ignorant, or downright communist. Not cool.

 

tslex

Lifer
Jun 23, 2011
1,482
15
Well, golly, hiplainsdrifter, that's awful mean. So I'm either ignorant or a commie? Jimminy -- I think my feelings are hurt.
Well. . . no they're not. But I'm afraid you've mistaken an insult for an argument, and thus failed to score in either regard.
Let me see if I can help. (Because that's all I really want, is to help.)
See, I think I'm thinking about all of this from not merely a commercial, but a social perspective -- and I'm doing so because this board is not designed to be primarily a commercial enterprise for those who inhabit it. And since this forum is not primarily a marketplace, Randian ojectivist principles are not the standard for evaluating behavior here. (Not for nothing, they are also not useful standards for evaluating Ayn Rand's behavior -- no greater hypocrite ever took breath or wrote over-long, self-indulgent, over-rated books. But I digress.)
You see, it seems to me that scooping up all the Spice -- er -- Penzance when it becomes available in the regular stream of commerce, then charging 4- and 5-times its usual price, is a lot more like, say, gouging your suffering neighbors $1,000 for a $300 generator and $10/gallon for gas after a hurricane. (Well, one difference is that such practices are actually illegal in my state in the wake of a hurricane, but for this exercise, let's pretend its not illegal, merely reprehensible.) Even if such behavior were legal, if you traded on such terms with your friends, you might expect to make a profit, but you certainly ought to expect to lose some friends. And even if you are OK with that, because you value profit over the goodwill of your neighbors, they certainly won't be "ignorant" or "communists" when they point out that you are chiseling, opportunistic scoundrel who doesn't deserve to live among decent people. (Speaking strictly hypothetically, of course, and using "you" in its generalized and not specific sense.)
See what's happened? Because the relationship among neighbors is not supposed to be strictly -- or even primarily -- commercial, your "business transaction," while lawful, has set you outside the community of which you were supposed to be a part. (In my fictional scenario, that is.)
Now, it actually goes farther than that, the opprobrium you can expect to endure. Because even in a pure marketplace, and even among staunch capitalists such as I -- folks who believe that those who make a useful product or provide a useful service ought to be compensated as the market sets value for their innovation, effort, labor, materials, etc -- there is natural, visceral loathing for the speculator, who makes nothing, contributes nothing, creates nothing. You may make a profit, but you'll likely have to sail your yacht or ride your polo ponies all alone (except for the prostitutes you pay yo pretend to like you). [Again, speaking not of "you" in the sense of hiplainsdrifter, but rather "you" in the sense of some notional, utterly hypothetical person who behaves in such a manner.]
So, I'm afraid simply calling me names isn't much of argument as it relates to the issue I raised and speak of here. [Not that calling me names isn't swell fun. You should have at it. There are so many excellent ones. It's just not an argument.] But I await, with eager anticipation, your more detailed and considered responses on the issues discussed, not least of all becuase this sort of discourse (well, not the calling names part) is precisely the sort of thing this forum -- this community -- exists to promote. (Even if I don't make a dime from it. See how that works?)

 

bigpond

Lifer
Oct 14, 2014
2,019
14
Dear friend, Objectivism isn't simply a lens through which to observe the marketplace rather it's the rubric for living correctly. My neighbor is ok, I guess, but if I could trade him 2 gallons of gas for a clean hundo...well then, not only have I increased my happiness, thus achieving a moral victory, I've also made enough to score three bags of Eso to unload on you suckers, oops ahem, refined gentlemen, for a 500% markup, again increasing my Holiday cheer! Good will is wonderful and we should all share in it by spreading it this Holiday season, sluice like, like grass seed through the backend of an overgorged cow. Please see my for sale ad to start the Holiday in a way that benefits all of America!
PS: this thread totally needs more GUNS!
PPS: Sanders vs Carson 2016!

 

perdurabo

Lifer
Jun 3, 2015
3,305
1,581
Economy and Lassiez Faire comes up and Ayn Rand becomes a Hypocrite. Well, she was the only woman in the past 100 years, that wrote a book that tells man how to finally destroy the collectivist. Profit is the point of private business. (Drop the Mic)

 

hiplainsdrifter

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 8, 2012
977
14
is a lot more like, say, gouging your suffering neighbors $1,000 for a $300 generator and $10/gallon for gas after a hurricane.
I don't think this example works too well, as a rare tobacco is nowhere near as important as power after a natural disaster. Not to me anyway.
this forum is not primarily a marketplace
Totally agree. But is is ALSO a marketplace. Therein lies the confusion I suppose.

there is natural, visceral loathing for the speculator, who makes nothing, contributes nothing, creates nothing.
That is all retailers do. Better stop buying anything.
I didn't call you names. I said your attitude was inappropriate within the context of the brotherly forum that you hold so dear. It has alienated me far more effectively than 125.00 Penzance could.

 

tslex

Lifer
Jun 23, 2011
1,482
15
"Retailer" and "speculator."
You keep using those words, but I don't think they mean what you think they mean.
:)

 

tslex

Lifer
Jun 23, 2011
1,482
15
And hiplainsdrifter, seriously. you do realize those are utterly different things, right?
I mean you have a pretty strong opinion on these socio-economic matters. So you know have some knowledge, too? Right? I mean, you're not just making a completely nonsensical false equivalency between two completely different things simply becuase you don't KNOW the difference? Right? It's some kind of really sophisticated rhetorical device, right? Some kind of next order irony or something?
Right?
:)
::smiley face makes it OK::

 

peteguy

Lifer
Jan 19, 2012
1,531
916
Pipestud has a great reputation on this forum and yet he asks $125 a bag. How come I never see anyone calling him a gouger or a greedy overgorged cow? Is it because it is on his own site so he gets a pass? Out of site out of mind kind of thing? I guess he doesn't spread Holiday cheer like all the good boys here do with their fine wit and sarcastic threads.

 

hiplainsdrifter

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 8, 2012
977
14
And hiplainsdrifter, seriously. you do realize those are utterly different things, right?
Care to get off your high horse long enough to explain this to me? I do not have a background in economics. Both speculators and retailers buy goods in quantity with hopes of selling them for a profit at a later date. Hence my comparison.
If you are going to casually lambast others for thinking differently, you can expect some some strong opinions. However, I am certainly interested in having a civil discussion on an interesting topic rather than just slinging s#!t at each other.

 

jackswilling

Lifer
Feb 15, 2015
1,777
24
"Pipestud has a great reputation on this forum and yet he asks $125 a bag. How come I never see anyone calling him a gouger or a greedy overgorged cow?"
"If you are going to casually lambast others for thinking differently, you can expect some some strong opinions"
Two good points.

Everyone/most everyone loves Pipestud. I have done business with him and will do more. I don't get the cry-baby POV. "Mommy, Billy is charging too much for his pipe tobacco."

"There, there, son, just don't buy it."

 

tslex

Lifer
Jun 23, 2011
1,482
15
Oh this IS good fun.
hiplains, we live in a wondrous age and Google brings all definitions in all languages are there at the command of any who wishes them. Not like when I was a kid and we had to walk uphill both ways to the dictionary.

 

fordm60

Part of the Furniture Now
Dec 19, 2014
598
5
I may be incorrect, tslex please correct me if needed, but it is not the selling but rather the selling here in the forum at those prices that violated his sense of community. I see nothing wrong with that. This forum does have a generous almost family type of feel to it. So to use a military euphemism "don't be a buddy fucker" has been violated. I can see his point, pipestud does not sell here on the forum as far as I have seen. I agree they can sell at any price they can find a sucker to buy it and I feel tslex agrees with that point, he and others simply find it distasteful in the forum. Or perhaps I have misunderstood his and others points, but I do not think so.

 

hiplainsdrifter

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 8, 2012
977
14
hiplains, we live in a wondrous age and Google brings all definitions in all languages are there at the command of any who wishes them. Not like when I was a kid and we had to walk uphill both ways to the dictionary.
So, you don't want to actually have a civil discussion. Got it.

 

tslex

Lifer
Jun 23, 2011
1,482
15
fordm60 -- besides having a screen name that incorporates the name of the fine American maker of my truck AND one of the classic LMGs of the last half of the last century -- GETS it. He really gets it.

 

fordm60

Part of the Furniture Now
Dec 19, 2014
598
5
Thank you tslex it is good to be correct every now and again!! My screen name is from when I was still in the US Army, my last name and you got it the M-60. Loved being in the guns!! My 60 was named Glamdring the Foe Hammer. A nod to Tolkien plus a correct description and was a bastard to try and explain the gun's name to non Tolkien readers lol!!

 

peteguy

Lifer
Jan 19, 2012
1,531
916
he and others simply find it distasteful in the forum.
And they have every right to their opinion. However, since there is a section for selling pipes and tobaccos and there is no rule, bylaw, etc. against it, in my opinion, a poster on this forum should not have the right to voice their distaste in the sellers WTS thread. That is a bigger violation to our sense of community! than asking a price deemed to high by some, isnt it?
How many members have felt ill will, slighted, anger, aingst, etc. all because someone here has an opinion that an asking price is to high? If you really care about our sense of community you would be trying to make posters with diverse backgrounds, values, temperaments, etc., all feel welcome and not just those that happen to side with your economic principles.

 

tslex

Lifer
Jun 23, 2011
1,482
15
I'd love a civil discussion, hiplains. I'm not the one who said anyone who believed what you believed was an ignorant commie. If you will look up thread, you said that those who believe what I believe are ignorant or commies (which, I confess, your offered as an either/or, not an and). (If you do not ackowledge that you did this, then you lack the necessary honesty for a civil discussion, rhetorical matters aside.)
Then you demonstrate that you do not know what the difference is between a retailer and a speculator. And you get angry at ME becuase I suggest those terms have actual meanings that can easily be known by anyone, and that they are not the same thing. I'm sorry you find it unfair that words mean things, and that you cannot randomly deploy whatever words you wish and still have your meaning understood. But there it is. If I ask for a cow but have in mind a fish, not your fault if what you deliver makes milk.
Then,rather than simply find the meaning of the terms you wish to use (a matter of a click or two), you criticize ME for suggesting you ought to do so. Had I offered the definitions TO you here, you'd have said I was acting high-handed by doing so. [Indeed, what a hoity-toity toff I must be, to suggest that folks ought to know the meanings of the words they use.]
But, for the tally books, here, let's try these:
Retailer: A term describing businesses that sell goods directly to individuals.
Retailers provide a service by aggregating goods, maintaining stocks, carrying inventory defined by the market demand, servicing goods they sell, managing the costs of defective or returned items. They offer goods at a price to the public, and that price is the same for a given buyer at a given time, although it fluctuates in connection with the price paid by the retailer.
Speculator:A person or an entity that buys goods or securities essentially as bets that the price will go up or down.
Speculators typically wager that a good or security's price will be decoupled in some way from its intrinsic value, often by stochasitic events, that drive the price artificially or unusually high or low.
No surprise, the state of the republic, I suppose.

 
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