A Rumination on the Superiority of Good Briar

[telescopes]

I have to agree - while there are some absolutely great pipes out there, today, we have pipes that just are over the moon in terms of quality and design. I have some old Kaywoodies and quite a few Dunhill's from back in the day. Honestly, there isn't a hill of beans difference that I can tell between the two except that the sandblasting on the Dunhill's is pretty decent. In terms of smoking, ah, my Kaywoodies not only hold their own, they do better than that.

However, my modern pipes just wipe the floor with both. Better design, more interesting to look at, and they smoke as good or better than anything I have that is older. And, my older ones smoke well.

 

[telescopes]

Back in the day, I had four choices for purchasing a pipe: Grandpa Pidgeons - the local general store, the 5&Dime, John Dengler - the local B&M, or the Tinder Box. Accept for John Dengler, the other three places offered only what they carried, and that was the stock and trade pipes. The Tinder Box at least offered a more up scale selection. But, I was just a college student and after graduating, a beginning teacher who relied on a night job to make ends meet. I never even bothered to look at the higher end pipes at Dengler or the Tinder Box. So, my expectations on what made a quality pipe were just above that of a basket pipe.

I wasn't alone in that thinking. Working men such as myself, settled for and were content with these pipes. It felt good knowing your "second" was really a Comoy, Peterson, or if really fortunate... a Dunhill. No one I knew discussed briar quality or workmanship, or any of that other "shit". We were just happy to have found a pipe we liked and smoked well.

With the Internet came information. Had I been a college student today, no doubt I would almost instantly become educated on the differences in briar quality, workmanship, draught, bowl size, and above all, endless tobacco choices. No doubt I might then make different choices in what pipes I purchased.

The Information Age we live in today educates buyers like never before and because of that, drives the market place to provide a higher quality of pipe and pipe selection. I have about 20 older and vintage pipes. For the most part, they look like pipes. My new pipes, the more modern ones play on the older themes and provide me with some interesting variations. My newer pipes don't even really fit in the older pipe racks.

I agree with Cosmic and others - today is the golden age of pipe making.

 

[Briar Lee]

This insinuates that pipemakers today don't? Come on, there were horrible pipes back then. We are in the Renaissance of pipemaking. Never have there been more people sharing and exchanging knowledge of pipemaking. Hell, in the US back then, you were limited to driving half a day to a decent tobacconist, or buying one of the hack job Grabows off the peg in the nickel and dime store. I know, I know... I am arguing with a guy who collects old bottom rung pipes. I shouldn't expect much, ha ha. But, I'm don't buy into that shit of "the good ol' days", and I not a fresh daisy of today either. I was there. It was bullshit.

There’s an old saying you can’t say a good word about Camels without somebody claiming you’re knocking Luckies.

Dr Grabow still keeps 50 hands making pipes. That’s a lot of pipes and supplying them briar is still a challenge.

But the heyday of millions of briars a year, and the men that had to grade and buy that briar is long gone.

I’d guess most or all the briar Grabow buys is from one trusted source.

But back when there were a dozen or more large makers of $10 pipes who also made $1 pipes, there was a lot of attempted cheating going on, and men who could grade briar at auctions were highly compensated.

Also, in my youth a huge oak tree was worth about $20-50 at the mill, and $200 over at the Independent Stave Company at Lebanon Missouri.

I rode over with a logger one time to Lebanon. I asked what happened if he tried slipping in red oak, jack oak, post oak, black oak, or anything other than the best straight white oak.

He said the man that approved the loads would almost certainly catch him, and not only reject that load but put the VIN number of his log truck on a Do Not Buy list.

That cut back on the scammers, I’d reckon.

His log truck wasn’t fully loaded, but all passed.

Briar is graded.

Better costs more.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

There’s an old saying you can’t say a good word about Camels without somebody claiming you’re knocking Luckies.

Dr Grabow still keeps 50 hands making pipes. That’s a lot of pipes and supplying them briar is still a challenge.

But the heyday of millions of briars a year, and the men that had to grade and buy that briar is long gone.

I’d guess most or all the briar Grabow buys is from one trusted source.

But back when there were a dozen or more large makers of $10 pipes who also made $1 pipes, there was a lot of attempted cheating going on, and men who could grade briar at auctions were highly compensated.

Also, in my youth a huge oak tree was worth about $20-50 at the mill, and $200 over at the Independent Stave Company at Lebanon Missouri.

I rode over with a logger one time to Lebanon. I asked what happened if he tried slipping in red oak, jack oak, post oak, black oak, or anything other than the best straight white oak.

He said the man that approved the loads would almost certainly catch him, and not only reject that load but put the VIN number of his log truck on a Do Not Buy list.

That cut back on the scammers, I’d reckon.

His log truck wasn’t fully loaded, but all passed.

Briar is graded.

Better costs more.

Haha, Ok ok, I have no idea what you are talking about. I still think you're a salesman. I get that vibe from your choices of words. Do you have any evidence of... "and the men that had to grade and buy that briar is long gone."
Or... "most or all the briar Grabow buys is from one trusted source."
...Evidence, besides the tree guy 45 years ago who enlightened you on how all wood is processed?

Have you even watched the movie "Father the Flame" (it's on Amazon now, great flick) or any of the videos on briar harvesting? They are great sources for information on modern briar harvesting, and those guys talking about how it used to be, with the old timers. I think you might find it educational.

"Better costs more." ...isn't that statement conflicting with your previous assertions? I mean, Grabows were cheap, always have been.

I'm not sure what you're selling, but you're working it hard. You bring some spirit to the forum.

 

[Scottishgaucho]

45 years ago, when I was young enough to dodge mean bulls, I worked at the Cattleman Auction at Humansville Missouri. I much envied the Cadillacs and Lincolns and big silver belt buckles, 100X Stetsons and mobile phones of the order buyers, and considered that as a profession.

But those men could by sight and long years of experience, look at a cow or calf and grade how much it weighed, and whether the carcass would grade out prime. And they did that instantly, in competition with othe buyers.

Four huge packing companies now control virtually all the cattle trade in the United States, and the order buyers are still at the sale barns, but they dress in bib overalls and wear baseball caps and have lost their panache and style.

Back then they usually smoked hand rolled cigars, now they smoke King Edwards, and Dutch Masters Presidents.

During the heyday of pipe smoking there had to be lots of briar buyers, that knew their trade.

Funny you should mention cattle....?

Interesting discussion most of which is way over my head. I have a few estate briars which I bought to smoke not to collect. Turned out some were from well known makers who have a reputation for quality. However I have to say my Condor Ready Rubbed or any of the other blends I smoke performs just as good in a Falcon as it does in any of those briars.
Then again I don't give it too much thought to be honest...maybe I should pay more attention?

 

[telescopes]

Lebanon, Missouri has a great little restaurant that sells fantastic catfish sandwiches. Do you know the restaurant?

 

[Chasing Embers]

That’s a lot of pipes and supplying them briar is still a challenge.

I could order briar from Italy right now and I haven't made a pipe for years.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Lebanon, Missouri has a great little restaurant that sells fantastic catfish sandwiches. Do you know the restaurant?

Dowd's?

 

[telescopes]

You know what a bigger challenge is than getting quality briar. I’ll tell you. Getting Provel cheese. And do you know where you can just happen to get some? Lebanon, Missouri. You can also get some nice John Boats there as well.

 

[telescopes]

Dowd's?

Dowd’s Award Winning Catfish

Dowd's Award Winning Catfish Meals are served with hush puppies and your choice of 3 regular sides. Southern Fried Catfish Dinner Our famous hand breaded catfish fillets deep fried in peanut oil. Make it spicy for $1.00 more. 8 piece 19.99 6 piece 17.99 4 piece 14.99 Dowd’s Combination Dinner 2...

dowdscatfishandbbq.com

yup

lebanon - it isn’t just for lumber or even metaphors regarding briar quality.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Dowd’s Award Winning Catfish

Dowd's Award Winning Catfish Meals are served with hush puppies and your choice of 3 regular sides. Southern Fried Catfish Dinner Our famous hand breaded catfish fillets deep fried in peanut oil. Make it spicy for $1.00 more. 8 piece 19.99 6 piece 17.99 4 piece 14.99 Dowd’s Combination Dinner 2...

dowdscatfishandbbq.com

yup

lebanon - it isn’t just for lumber or even metaphors regarding briar quality.

I've got an aunt that lives there. I could live on Dowd's food!

 

[CoffeeAndBourbon]

I love fried catfish!!!

 

[Briar Lee]

Funny you should mention cattle....?

Interesting discussion most of which is way over my head. I have a few estate briars which I bought to smoke not to collect. Turned out some were from well known makers who have a reputation for quality. However I have to say my Condor Ready Rubbed or any of the other blends I smoke performs just as good in a Falcon as it does in any of those briars.
Then again I don't give it too much thought to be honest...maybe I should pay more attention?

That’s a fine looking whiteface Hereford there, and I still see a few driving around Missouri. I have some farmer clients and occasionally visit the sale barns. You can no longer tell the order buyers to look at them. Their Cadillac Eldorados and Lincoln Continentals and Chrysler Imperials have long ago been melted down to make razor blades.

I’ve heard three or four car horns honking at the same time, where a cattle buyer’s mobile phone was ringing, and dispatched a runner to tell the owners. I got paid $2.50 an hour, to watch the back alleys and pen after the sale, and the boys that ran messages only $1.

In those days a brand new Cadillac, Lincoln, or Imperial was $6,000.

Dr Jay Sprowls, the veterinarian at the Cattleman Auction, was paid $2.00 for each head that unloaded, and some Friday’s there would be over 3,000 head sold. Doc Sprowls drove an old $500 pickup.

My dress Stetson was a $100 20X grade.

Order buyers were paid $5 a head and some would buy 400 head, and earn two thousand dollars.

At least the waitresses honestly smiled at me back then, bringing me a cheeseburger and a Pepsi curtesy of some order buyer who’d got an order for another pot of cattle, over his mobile phone.

Tipping her a dollar never slowed the service, either.

Most of the cattle sold today are black. My friends tell me they’ve beat the order buyers down to as low as fifty cents a head, working on contracts.

Not nearly as much now as then, some mean tempered bull goes through the ring, and I can see the auctioneers’ beautiful assistant key her microphone and I know what’s she’s saying to the boys in the back alley

FIRE IN THE HOLE BOYS

BUYERS BEHIND THE RAILS

Some things never change at a sale barn.

 

[lawdawg]

Technology and production abilities in general tend to improve over time, just like the article in this thread which demonstrated that listeners and players alike preferred modern violins to Stradivarius violins in a blind test. Over time, knowledge and processes are refined and improved, leading to a better end product. I see no reason that pipes would be an exception.

Just like the whole "they don't make 'em like they used to" thing that people say about cars. Good! I'm glad they don't make them like they used to. Otherwise, I'd have to have my engine rebuilt every few years. As it stands now, my 15 year old F-150 is running strong and hasn't required much more than standard maintenance. Likewise, if the pipes of the early to mid-20th century were superior to today's pipes, then why would so many of them have stingers and other various contraptions that are far more trouble than they are worth?

As a last thought, pipe makers in the 1950's were making huge volumes of pipes for smokers who were often content just to smoke one pipe and one blend all day every day. Pipe makers today are making pipes for smokers who seem to care a great deal more about the details of the experience than the "one pipe, one blend" smoker of the past. It reasons that today's pipe's would be built with today's more demanding smokers in mind.

 

[telescopes]

That’s a fine looking whiteface Hereford there, and I still see a few driving around Missouri. I have some farmer clients and occasionally visit the sale barns. You can no longer tell the order buyers to look at them. Their Cadillac Eldorados and Lincoln Continentals and Chrysler Imperials have long ago been melted down to make razor blades.

I’ve heard three or four car horns honking at the same time, where a cattle buyer’s mobile phone was ringing, and dispatched a runner to tell the owners. I got paid $2.50 an hour, to watch the back alleys and pen after the sale, and the boys that ran messages only $1.

In those days a brand new Cadillac, Lincoln, or Imperial was $6,000.

Dr Jay Sprowls, the veterinarian at the Cattleman Auction, was paid $2.00 for each head that unloaded, and some Friday’s there would be over 3,000 head sold. Doc Sprowls drove an old $500 pickup.

My dress Stetson was a $100 20X grade.

Order buyers were paid $5 a head and some would buy 400 head, and earn two thousand dollars.

At least the waitresses honestly smiled at me back then, bringing me a cheeseburger and a Pepsi curtesy of some order buyer who’d got an order for another pot of cattle, over his mobile phone.

Tipping her a dollar never slowed the service, either.

Most of the cattle sold today are black. My friends tell me they’ve beat the order buyers down to as low as fifty cents a head, working on contracts.

Not nearly as much now as then, some mean tempered bull goes through the ring, and I can see the auctioneers’ beautiful assistant key her microphone and I know what’s she’s saying to the boys in the back alley

FIRE IN THE HOLE BOYS

BUYERS BEHIND THE RAILS

Some things never change at a sale barn.

Your story can be used to illustrate the difference between pipe making of yesterday with today. Just the opposite is occurring. More artisans and small pipe makers are able to provide pipes to customers in ways that just didn’t happen or were possible “back then”. Access to quality briar for these makers is even more possible.

 

[Briar Lee]

Haha, Ok ok, I have no idea what you are talking about. I still think you're a salesman. I get that vibe from your choices of words. Do you have any evidence of... "and the men that had to grade and buy that briar is long gone."
Or... "most or all the briar Grabow buys is from one trusted source."
...Evidence, besides the tree guy 45 years ago who enlightened you on how all wood is processed?

Have you even watched the movie "Father the Flame" (it's on Amazon now, great flick) or any of the videos on briar harvesting? They are great sources for information on modern briar harvesting, and those guys talking about how it used to be, with the old timers. I think you might find it educational.

"Better costs more." ...isn't that statement conflicting with your previous assertions? I mean, Grabows were cheap, always have been.

I'm not sure what you're selling, but you're working it hard. You bring some spirit to the forum.

I’ve spent all my adult life observing how men get in trouble with fast cars, fast women, good whiskey, and other such wonderful vices.

I get paid well to get them out of those troubles, and it helps to know a little about a lot of other people’s business.

And when your wear a nice suit, folks expect you to smoke a nice pipe, and it just must, smell good too.

My pen I carried in my shirt pocket to court this morning cost $160.

Looks just like, a real Parker Dufold.

My pipe was one of my Lee’s, that has three gold stars.

A poor lawyer never has touched, a three star Lee, and especially not when they were new.

 

[telescopes]

Ah…. And there it is. Your job is to convince people of something they might not otherwise be convinced. ?

 

[lawdawg]

Ah…. And there it is. Your job is to convince people of something they might not otherwise be convinced. ?

Also a lawyer here. I spend more time talking my clients out of their own bad ideas than I do trying to convince other parties, or judges for that matter, to change their position.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I’ve spent all my adult life observing how men get in trouble with fast cars, fast women, good whiskey, and other such wonderful vices.

I get paid well to get them out of those troubles, and it helps to know a little about a lot of other people’s business.

And when your wear a nice suit, folks expect you to smoke a nice pipe, and it just must, smell good too.

My pen I carried in my shirt pocket to court this morning cost $160.

Looks just like, a real Parker Dufold.

My pipe was one of my Lee’s, that has three gold stars.

A poor lawyer never has touched, a three star Lee, and especially not when they were new.

Good to meet you Mr Lee. A lawyer is a whole different type of salesman, ha ha.

Lawdog is right. My uncles were Grabow smokers. They'd smoke those things till you couldn't get a pencil down the chamber, and then throw them away to get another. They were proud of the huge cake, like they were looking forward to getting a new pipe soon. They were no-nonsense tools, not really made for wooing or captivating. But, there ain't nothing wrong with a tool.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Also a lawyer here. I spend more time talking my clients out of their own bad ideas than I do trying to convince other parties, or judges for that matter, to change their position.

My damn lawyer spent most of his time with me trying to convince me that he said not to do that thing he had just told me to do the day before. Fired him. He turned out to be the type of lawyer that I need to have a lawyer present with me to talk to him, ha ha.