A Message From Mike & Mary McNiel
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Well, look at it this way. 5100 requires red that when processed in the manner that McClelland processes it, will end up tasting like 5100. Other fine red leaf is going to be different, not necessarily worse, just different, and not right for 5100.
Jesse, I can understand your point and it was mentioned before as:
I have more to say, but I will just keep those to myself. We will live and see.
I was also thinking the exact same thing before Mr. Pease posted:
We have a master blender here saying that there is quality leaf indeed. I don't think that he said that not taking "VA's they are now finding will not produce the taste outcome they seek" into account. You are simply saying that McC was finding a tobacco - RV01 (Red Virginia 01) and they were processing it with the method of MCP01 (McClelland Processing 01) and the result was 5100. Now they cannot find RV01 but RV02 and applying MCP01 to it won't give McClelland 5100. I understand it.
I have more to say, but I will just keep those to myself. We will live and see.
According to Jon David on the most recent Country Squire podcast, this shortage will affect only bulk blends for now. This information was based on his conversations with Mary and Mike McNeil on the day the Steve shared the 5100 announcement. He attributed the shortage to machine harvesting which fails to discriminate between ripe, overripe, and underripe leaves. Reading between the lines, I'm guessing that fewer farms are still producing tobacco using the old, comparatively expensive methods. As such, it is logical to use the limited supply in the best quality and likely higher margin tinned products.
When I was a younger geezer and started paying attention to what was going on around me in the 1950's and early 1960's, tobacco was a major part of our regional culture. The local newspaper carried auction results from several towns in the area on the front page, usually with pictures of the buyers inspecting baskets on the opening day. . Local stores timed their promotions around when the auctions settled. The tobacco allotment was the source of many families Christmas cash. Curing and storage facilities were all over the place. The remnants of one large flue facility are still visible from an interstate highway. That is the only one I could take you to see. 40 years ago I could have driven you to a couple of dozen. That is the only one I am sure that still stands for the most part, but unused.
Hasn't been that way for decades. Will get worse. Maybe the future for farming tobacco in America will be in genetically modified no or low nicotine varieties yet to be developed. But a culture has disappeared without much of a trace. Too bad. My family had nothing to do with any kind of farming except for a great uncle who had a small alotment, but we all knew how hard the tobacco crop was to bring in and admired their work ethic.
Hasn't been that way for decades. Will get worse. Maybe the future for farming tobacco in America will be in genetically modified no or low nicotine varieties yet to be developed. But a culture has disappeared without much of a trace. Too bad. My family had nothing to do with any kind of farming except for a great uncle who had a small alotment, but we all knew how hard the tobacco crop was to bring in and admired their work ethic.
craiginthecorn wrote:
Crops vary from year to year, and the fact that what's currently available on the tobacco market (from previous harvests) doesn't satisfy one specific set of requirements does not mean that 1) it won't be there in the future or 2) the rest of the supply isn't good. It's very similar to wine in that respect. What's different is that winemakers and wine buyers understand vintage variations, while tobacco producers and smokers seek consistency. (That some classic blends have been morphed into something completely different from what they once were yet still retain an enthusiastic audience belies this statement, I realize, but there are always outliers to any trend.)
Believe it or not, the big cigarette companies are very particular with the leaf they buy. I've met some leaf buyers, and the knowledge and experience they bring when buying tobacco is remarkable. As a $120-billion dollar per year industry, cigarette producers drive the bus. We're fortunate, in a very real way, because without them, either pipe tobacco wouldn't exist or it would be prohibitively expensive. Still, more quality leaf is grown than they buy, and we get to take advantage of that.
As I said, the sky is not falling. At least not today, not this year. No conspiracies. No space aliens. No nefarious plots hatching behind the closed doors of secret facilities buried deep in the earth.
What will happen after the little 2021 "stay of execution" the FDA has granted is anyone's guess.
The problem with this statement is that it's been that way for decades. For as long as I've been doing this, I've heard the same refrain sung over and over, yet nothing, really, has changed in the past 20 years. Machine harvesting started in the 60s, and by the 70s was widespread. The auctions, too, stopped long enough ago that I've never had the opportunity to attend one.
Crops vary from year to year, and the fact that what's currently available on the tobacco market (from previous harvests) doesn't satisfy one specific set of requirements does not mean that 1) it won't be there in the future or 2) the rest of the supply isn't good. It's very similar to wine in that respect. What's different is that winemakers and wine buyers understand vintage variations, while tobacco producers and smokers seek consistency. (That some classic blends have been morphed into something completely different from what they once were yet still retain an enthusiastic audience belies this statement, I realize, but there are always outliers to any trend.)
Believe it or not, the big cigarette companies are very particular with the leaf they buy. I've met some leaf buyers, and the knowledge and experience they bring when buying tobacco is remarkable. As a $120-billion dollar per year industry, cigarette producers drive the bus. We're fortunate, in a very real way, because without them, either pipe tobacco wouldn't exist or it would be prohibitively expensive. Still, more quality leaf is grown than they buy, and we get to take advantage of that.
As I said, the sky is not falling. At least not today, not this year. No conspiracies. No space aliens. No nefarious plots hatching behind the closed doors of secret facilities buried deep in the earth.
What will happen after the little 2021 "stay of execution" the FDA has granted is anyone's guess.
Greg, thank you for giving us all much more information than is currently available to the lay. We appreciate it, well, at least I think that we do. I certainly appreciate how much you have shared. I can study as much as I want, but without being in the industry it is hard to know this much. Hopefully this is nowhere near as big a deal as it can seem.
Greg, geeez did you have to crap on my conspiracy theory? I was getting ready to write a book detailing how a McClelland employee broke into the company safe, stole the recipe for 5100 and then brought it to you. You were going to bring a blend called Red Virginia 0051 to market and the world would know peace again. Oh well, I will go back to smoking all of my flakes that have no reds in them because my tongue is too much of a pussy to handle them.
Sorry, Harris. I just wasn't thinking. You could have titled the book "Area 5100," and it would have sold by the millions.
I'll redact my post, you write the book, and we'll share the royalties. The title, after all, is at least as important as the contents.
Now, where's my bottle of digital Whiteout?
I'll redact my post, you write the book, and we'll share the royalties. The title, after all, is at least as important as the contents.
Now, where's my bottle of digital Whiteout?
You guys do realize that part of the life blood of any forum is the "sky is falling" component. It gets us codgers running around with our arms flailing, which is very beneficial for its aerobic results.
From pipestud's original post in this thread:
"the two of them were sampling from a 500 pound batch of Red Virginia that they hoped measured up to their standards in order to produce more 5100 Red Cake. Mike called me this morning to say that, unfortunately, after extensive smoking tests in clay, Briar & Meerschaum pipes, the tobacco did not meet their standards and was headed for the trash bin."
After following this thread and listening to the two radio shows it seems like the batch that was set aside for 5100 didn't meet the standards of McClelland and was therefore canceled. I would guess the batch was already purchased and in their warehouse but proved disappointing. It does not sound like they surveyed all of the batches currently on the market, and is therefore not an indicator that no good red batches are out there. I am grateful for their exacting standards and commend them for taking the loss on the batch. I hope they are open to remaking 5100 should they find an acceptable batch in the future.
"the two of them were sampling from a 500 pound batch of Red Virginia that they hoped measured up to their standards in order to produce more 5100 Red Cake. Mike called me this morning to say that, unfortunately, after extensive smoking tests in clay, Briar & Meerschaum pipes, the tobacco did not meet their standards and was headed for the trash bin."
After following this thread and listening to the two radio shows it seems like the batch that was set aside for 5100 didn't meet the standards of McClelland and was therefore canceled. I would guess the batch was already purchased and in their warehouse but proved disappointing. It does not sound like they surveyed all of the batches currently on the market, and is therefore not an indicator that no good red batches are out there. I am grateful for their exacting standards and commend them for taking the loss on the batch. I hope they are open to remaking 5100 should they find an acceptable batch in the future.
And sometimes the sky really is falling. There is nothing about the now confirmed discontinuance of 5100 that bodes well for the future. The near future. Not the post 2021 future.
The next sentences from pipestud's original post:
"Mike asked me this morning to let everyone on the forum know that 5100, after having been sold publicly since 1980, is no more and has been officially retired from the McClelland's lineup. He knew that McClelland's 5100 had been a topic of discussion here and wanted to put an end to all the rumors and guessing."
I appreciate the extra information that comes from an official statement on behalf of Mike Mcniel. It helps to fine tune the questions, rumors and guessing. I hope he is willing to do another interview with Brian on The Pipesmagazine Radio Show. If Mike is officially retiring 5100, then it may be more of an indication of his own personal plans than the state of the market. Tobaccos like his red virginia are usually aged at least three years, a new batch wouldn't be ready until he is forced to comply with the deeming rule. He may consider that a good time to finally take a break from constantly tending our tobacco. 5100 may be officially retired right now, it is inevitable that Mike and Mary will retire in the future.
"Mike asked me this morning to let everyone on the forum know that 5100, after having been sold publicly since 1980, is no more and has been officially retired from the McClelland's lineup. He knew that McClelland's 5100 had been a topic of discussion here and wanted to put an end to all the rumors and guessing."
I appreciate the extra information that comes from an official statement on behalf of Mike Mcniel. It helps to fine tune the questions, rumors and guessing. I hope he is willing to do another interview with Brian on The Pipesmagazine Radio Show. If Mike is officially retiring 5100, then it may be more of an indication of his own personal plans than the state of the market. Tobaccos like his red virginia are usually aged at least three years, a new batch wouldn't be ready until he is forced to comply with the deeming rule. He may consider that a good time to finally take a break from constantly tending our tobacco. 5100 may be officially retired right now, it is inevitable that Mike and Mary will retire in the future.
There were about 500 tins of the 40th left at smokingpipes mid-week, all gone now. Thought about getting another 10 or 20 tins then but couldn't given a daughter who needed help.
The sky is falling. McClelland's 40th Anniversary flake is sold out. (Surprised it took as long as it did.) Luckily I got my 20 tins stashed to resell in 10 years and $100 each.
:mrgreen:
:mrgreen:
Geez , I thought I was the only nut actively watching McC 40th anniversary Tobacco, that inventory was going like hotcakes. Either someone bought 200 tins at once or smokingpipes made the last 200 unavailable for sale . Now we see whether it goes away or comes back. Maybe they have 5000 cans made in 2017, or 50000. I wish I knew. I think pipestud is right, when the 2017 vintage of tobacco is gone , it is gone and done. I don’t care that it’s gone. I bought what I need plus a few extra.
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