I agree the Peterson things is odd but as Bradley mentioned maybe they don’t sell all that well internationally?
A Look at STG Internal Documents Regarding the Mac Baren / Sutliff Buyout
- Thread starter Skippy B. Coyote
- Start date
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The loss of Sutliff is akin to Hersey’s buying See’s Candies and then deciding to do away with all of the See’s Candies selections. It’s even worse than that. Not only are some very unique classic aromatics now relegated to extinction, but other blends that were the back bone blending components of other blenders are now wiped out. Yes, whole leaf persists, but the Sutliff processing of those leaves was a boon for many small blenders and home blenders. Say good night to Moto Dulce. Imagine if there were no more Rice Krispies. Now imagine you can no longer make Rice Krispie Treats.
I swear to God if C&D sell out, I’m going to jump off a bridge
If it all comes down I'd find some creative solution that involves finding tobacco that I could blend into an acceptable smoke.
Actual documentation was not shown, in deference to his source, who didn’t want to be identified.
The broad lines agree with what is known, though the extermination of the Sutliff catalog is news to me. It didn’t occur to me that STG was that stupid. I guess it’s just an admission of just how mediocre they truly are.
It's how they think and how they see themselves. Go to STG's website and scroll down until you see the content titled:
Explore our must-win battles stories
From what I read in those "must-win battles" stories, they aren't done yet. They are at war. In a declining market dominated by middle-aged men they are in a fight for survival. Those middle-aged men get old and age out. Tobacco legislation and taxation drives consumption down. The acquisition of Mac Baren and the eventual outcome of that merger is not some tragic event. Mac Baren and Sutliff were in business with the way things were. STG is in business with the way things are, and the way things are going to be. They aren't going to waste time and money in markets that are doomed to future decline and obsolescence.
But as for the manufacturing machines... If I had the capital I'd stake out the location of that facility and get to know what equipment is there that I want. I'd try to make a side deal with current employees. Legally, of course. Failing that I'd make a deal with the scrapper and get the equipment anyways.
From what I got out of the video, STG themselves won't produce any Sutliff blends, but if I understand correctly they are going to sell off the Sutliff portfolio. One can hope that there will be a buyer, and it ends up in the hands of someone who will respect the blends as they are.
If they destroy the equipment, they aren't likely to find a buyer. Looks like an extinction-level event for Sutliff.
These machines were never sold off the rack. I mean, never could you just call up DeWalt and order a tobacco press. If you want a machine that will do something very specialized, you set up a machine shop and make it. There are also companies that will do this for you. The problem is that someone couldn't just buy this particular used equipment cheap to make start up more affordable for another company.
The problem is that there just isn't any money to be made getting into this. I am sure C&D wants to make money, but no one at C&D is thinking that they can live like an oil tycoon by getting involved with this industry. The problem here seems to be a private company, was gobbled up by a corporation. The differences is that a corporation is like a juggernaut. It is set up to make money for investors, period. You won't ever hear of a corporation actually doing something that benefits the customers over making money. But, a private business can do things that give us the warm and fuzzies, as long as they don't end up driving themselves into bankruptcy.
These are all the ones that I hope they keep. I liked Sweet Killarney for a caramel aromatic, but it's not a necessity
I wonder what the story on Peterson/Dunhill blends is? Laudisi/C&D owns Peterson, so why aren't they blending this in house? I would have to imagine they will start, unless there is some kind of legal right to the blends that STG now owns.
Quoting KBV
"
Well, I’ll try to explain this as well I can. Sutliff was the happy “common carrier” for pipe tobacco manufacture in America. Sutliff had a hand in everything. Sutliff was a backbone of many brick and mortars and that spine is being ripped out painfully. If true, this is economically damaging to the brick and mortar network that Sutliff had cultivated as it’s business model. Merry Christmas?
Without Sutliff, the hobby no longer can fill a catalog and will be relegated to an even smaller niche. Kill the competition, wound the hobby, collect the ghost of profits?
The only person in the business that I’ve seen show consistent acumen while trying to preserve tradition is Sykes Wilford. If you are going to see the hobby kept alive in America it will be due to Sykes.
Many of us independent retailers honestly don’t see much future in the hobby. Everyone loves to hate on the FDA, but the true tobacco-apocalypse turned out to be a rush acquisition due to multi-generational talent deterioration.
If its true… I did this for the fun of it and I feel blessed that I can shut the doors at any time. I’ll probably always keep a stack of my favorite stickers to flip through. After the new year, I’ll try to figure out how many months left of the keystone blends we have left. I’m going to try to see how much Burley Morning Pipe stuff I can get before they shut the doors and make it as long as I can, just because I can."
"
Well, I’ll try to explain this as well I can. Sutliff was the happy “common carrier” for pipe tobacco manufacture in America. Sutliff had a hand in everything. Sutliff was a backbone of many brick and mortars and that spine is being ripped out painfully. If true, this is economically damaging to the brick and mortar network that Sutliff had cultivated as it’s business model. Merry Christmas?
Without Sutliff, the hobby no longer can fill a catalog and will be relegated to an even smaller niche. Kill the competition, wound the hobby, collect the ghost of profits?
The only person in the business that I’ve seen show consistent acumen while trying to preserve tradition is Sykes Wilford. If you are going to see the hobby kept alive in America it will be due to Sykes.
Many of us independent retailers honestly don’t see much future in the hobby. Everyone loves to hate on the FDA, but the true tobacco-apocalypse turned out to be a rush acquisition due to multi-generational talent deterioration.
If its true… I did this for the fun of it and I feel blessed that I can shut the doors at any time. I’ll probably always keep a stack of my favorite stickers to flip through. After the new year, I’ll try to figure out how many months left of the keystone blends we have left. I’m going to try to see how much Burley Morning Pipe stuff I can get before they shut the doors and make it as long as I can, just because I can."
The blends haven't been actually associated with Dunhill for a very, very long time. And, when Dunhill demanded their name be removed, Petersons leant them there's. I'm not sure of the business arrangement if any. But, then Laudsis came around after that.
If STG holds the rights to the blends, and with the way they are being all smash, smash, smash... I don't see them letting go of them.
Several times in the history of these blends, other companies have made their similar blends. It may be that C&D releases some similar ones also, maybe new blend names and tin art, but maybe they can keep the Peterson name on them.
That group of tobacco has been through some shit over the years. They sell just enough of them to keep companies trying to keep them going, but apparently not enough to keep STG interested... that is, if all of this is true.
Definitely not pinching pennies given the massive investment in a new factory and warehouse and track and trace software and equipment. And not really cutting back on brands - only those that do not sell enough to make it financially viable or where very similar blends are made under different names. In fact there are far more blends available in the USA now than ever before.
I hope C&D somehow manages to come out ahead with the blends... No more Nightcap would be sad.
Laudisi have Peterson pipes, the tobacco went to STG. Two different things.
That is what I was saying. Laudsis buying Petersons came after Petersons lent their names to the blends. And, that it has been a very long time since these tobaccos were actually associated with any pipe company in any way other than name.