A Closer Look at Briar Grain

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Dec 3, 2021
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Pennsylvania & New York
I think I agree with @alaskanpiper that it is difficult to have a serious discussion about the question at hand when the discussion to often is a reinforcement of a particular line of thought based on repetition of a particular view point rather that an honest discussion of observable facts. The line of reasoning reminds me of a Sunday school debate.

Briar Grain - What is it? What role if any does it play in terms of smoking quality? Artistically, what makes beautiful briar grain? All of these questions can be addressed without arguing the merits of a Marxman Pipe.

There are many Marxman pipe threads. How many do we need? And I enjoy Marxman pipes, but perhaps we should keep Marxman pipe discussions in those threads when possible.

Made me think:

6431b164-83c7-4f4e-931b-019f8559dbc9.gif
 

alaskanpiper

Enabler in Chief
May 23, 2019
9,431
43,844
Alaska
It would be a high dollar Italian pipe today to equal the beauty of grain and careful finish of a five dollar Weber Golden Walnut.
Beauty of grain is, of course, in they eye of the beholder in some sense, but when I think of beautiful grain, like most pipe smokers, I think of straight grain or birdseye grain.

I have a lot of pipes with beautiful grain. Some were $50. Some were $500. But to illustrate the point, have a look at the photo below. I’ll avoid making any outright comparison to your Weber’s for reasons listed in the above paragraph, but not a single one of these pipes cost more than $95 in today’s money. A few of them were half that. Brand new, not estates. And for that matter, none of them are Italian either 😂

IMG_9022.jpeg
 

burleybreath

Lifer
Aug 29, 2019
1,086
3,849
Finger Lakes area, New York, USA
Well, I've never driven a Ferrari, but I can't see how it could be that much nicer than a Honda, right? I mean, Hondas are niiiice.
Well, I have driven a Ferrari, and let me tell you something: those Hondas kick Ferrari ass.

But seriously, I own several Dunhills, a couple of Castellos, ditto Ser Jacopos, the usual Savs and Petes, an Ingo Garbe, Stanwells, a Weber or two, and several Edwards--the latter marked ALGERIAN. I'll submit to being lynched if I can tell the difference in smoking qualities of any of them. If I absolutely had to pick a pipe of mine that smoked noticeably better than any others, I would reluctantly choose a Jean Lacroix Diamante billiard, of all things. Close second would be one of those Wilke house branded pipes that you might have plucked off the wall display in their old store on Madison Ave in NYC. Sold for 15 bucks or something. Wonder if they were ALGERIAN?!!

Each to his own. Amusing thread, though. I like it.
 

alaskanpiper

Enabler in Chief
May 23, 2019
9,431
43,844
Alaska
Well, I have driven a Ferrari, and let me tell you something: those Hondas kick Ferrari ass.

But seriously, I own several Dunhills, a couple of Castellos, ditto Ser Jacopos, the usual Savs and Petes, an Ingo Garbe, Stanwells, a Weber or two, and several Edwards--the latter marked ALGERIAN. I'll submit to being lynched if I can tell the difference in smoking qualities of any of them. If I absolutely had to pick a pipe of mine that smoked noticeably better than any others, I would reluctantly choose a Jean Lacroix Diamante billiard, of all things. Close second would be one of those Wilke house branded pipes that you might have plucked off the wall display in their old store on Madison Ave in NYC. Sold for 15 bucks or something. Wonder if they were ALGERIAN?!!

Each to his own. Amusing thread, though. I like it.
Jean LaCroix pipes are no joke man. I have a Drucquer & Sons Carmel 1032 he made, and it is a dead ringer clone for a 1968 Dunhill EK I also own. It was 1/10 of the price (although I did have to restore it). I guess Jean worked for Dunhill for a spell, so not hard to believe, but they smoke equally well and the LaCroix damn near matches the Dunhill aesthetically.

IMG_9198.jpeg
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,960
14,334
Humansville Missouri
Well, I have driven a Ferrari, and let me tell you something: those Hondas kick Ferrari ass.

But seriously, I own several Dunhills, a couple of Castellos, ditto Ser Jacopos, the usual Savs and Petes, an Ingo Garbe, Stanwells, a Weber or two, and several Edwards--the latter marked ALGERIAN. I'll submit to being lynched if I can tell the difference in smoking qualities of any of them. If I absolutely had to pick a pipe of mine that smoked noticeably better than any others, I would reluctantly choose a Jean Lacroix Diamante billiard, of all things. Close second would be one of those Wilke house branded pipes that you might have plucked off the wall display in their old store on Madison Ave in NYC. Sold for 15 bucks or something. Wonder if they were ALGERIAN?!!

Each to his own. Amusing thread, though. I like it.

This middle fifties Dr Grabow Royal Duke is full of 1792 right now and this pipe cannot be exceeded for a good smoke. I just want to eat this pipe, it’s so good.

IMG_6259.jpeg

I bought it new, found behind a cabinet in the Lead Mine Store about 1990 where it was mislaid over thirty years. The price tag was $9.95, and what I was charged.

When it was new, it sat atop the Dr Grabow display with the little dollar pipes on the bottom. It must have fallen off.:)

I can see hand tool marks inside the hand rustication. Every atom of this pipe was first class.

But if you smoked it you might not like such a robust, strong, rich and hearty smoker.

Mild, sweet, and light it ain’t.:)
 
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didimauw

Moderator
Staff member
Jul 28, 2013
10,665
37,352
SE WI
This middle fifties Dr Grabow Royal Duke is full of 1792 right now and this pipe cannot be exceeded for a good smoke. I just want to eat this pipe, it’s so good.

View attachment 274456

I bought it new, found behind a cabinet in the Lead Mine Store about 1990 where it was mislaid over thirty years. The price tag was $9.95, and what I was charged.

When it was new, it sat atop the Dr Grabow display with the little dollar pipes on the bottom. It must have fallen off.:)

I can see hand tool marks inside the hand rustication. Every atom of this pipe was first class.

But if you smoked it you might not like such a robust, strong, rich and hearty smoker.

Mild, sweet, and light it ain’t.:)
If the only pipes left were Dr Grabows, I'd smoke happily.
 

BigEd

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 19, 2023
160
476
Franklin, TN
Fascinating discussion. I can’t make a direct comparison, at least that I’m aware of, but the biggest difference in taste of the pipes that I have are between English and Italian made pipes. I don’t know why but it’s distinctive and consistent.
 
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Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,960
14,334
Humansville Missouri
Fascinating discussion. I can’t make a direct comparison, at least that I’m aware of, but the biggest difference in taste of the pipes that I have are between English and Italian made pipes. I don’t know why but it’s distinctive and consistent.

The most distinctive briar pipes I own are Lees. Lee had a sugar cure or something.
He advertised it. It’s beat you over the tongue obvious in a new Lee, and then fades with use. Mainly it helps on break in.

Why an Italian pipe may taste a little different is Italy produces briar and Britain doesn’t. Italy might buy the local product and the fanciest get exported, or vice versa.
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,960
14,334
Humansville Missouri
I’ll be damned.

Here is my champion Marxman to color.



IMG_6282.jpeg

Four smokes

IMG_6298.jpeg

Buffed with 4/0 steel wool

IMG_6303.jpeg

Half an bowl and it’s recoloring.

IMG_6306.jpeg


There is a differnce.

Only the softest and spongiest briar will color that quickly.

And this pipe is beyond a dynamite good smoker. It refuses to get hot, too. It smokes so dry I couldn’t make up a lie about it.

Some briar is as porous, or more so, than meerschaum.
 
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anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
16,662
31,236
46
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
I will say I don't have the same experience, but given all of the things we know change our food and drink, that it would be counterintuitive to think that the material of our pipes doesn't have at least a detectable effect on flavor. In my own experience, (and I'm not a super taster), I can taste the hardwood charring in a new MM cob, and I can taste the warm corn flavor in my old broken in cobs. I can taste when my cast iron skillet needs to be re-seasoned, or when I cook on a propane grill instead of coal. So, even if it's not my experience, I think it's plausible enough not to poop on the idea. On the other hand, there are all sorts of variables at work...and it wouldn't do to let the ol' post hoc ergo us right in the propter hoc, ya know?
This comment is awesome. I have had so many people insist they can't tell or taste a difference and that means people who can are delusional. Love having someone say something this true. On the original subject the difference I notice in pipes is rarely dramatic. My Rattray always tastes sweeter and more clear shockingly. My Brebbia is just mellower to the point that already blander blends get too mellow. Wouldn't say any is better or worse just not the same.
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,960
14,334
Humansville Missouri
They all color, even at $25 the most expensive regularly cataloged factory pipe on earth in 1940, this 400 # D 334. Usually they color like this, evenly all over, a bit darker on the bottoms.

Earlier today

IMG_6312.jpeg

Two smokes later

IMG_6322.jpeg

Yes, that’s a fill on the bottom.

Marx used a putty the same color as the initial pipe color, and it’s in a carving. Eventually the putty darkens too.

This monster size 125 gram 400 weighs about four times as much as the $5 Benchmade A, which is a standard medium size forties pipe.
 
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Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
44,913
117,173
I’ll be damned.

Here is my champion Marxman to color.



View attachment 274939

Four smokes

View attachment 274940

Buffed with 4/0 steel wool

View attachment 274941

Half an bowl and it’s recoloring.

View attachment 274942


There is a differnce.

Only the softest and spongiest briar will color that quickly.

And this pipe is beyond a dynamite good smoker. It refuses to get hot, too. It smokes so dry I couldn’t make up a lie about it.

Some briar is as porous, or more so, than meerschaum.
If you're buffing it off after smoking, that's coming from an external source. Likely oil from your hands.
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,960
14,334
Humansville Missouri
If you're buffing it off after smoking, that's coming from an external source. Likely oil from your hands.

I was very careful this time to only clench that pipe and not touch it except with a rag.

The wax itself may be turning that color, but there’s just not much heat.

And it comes right back if you sand it off.

And note only the bottom and one side is doing the wild coloring. Most of the pipe is coloring evenly and slowly like they all do.

Where that’s coloring so wildly has hundreds of little lines in the briar.

It’s soft as a sponge. Something is oozing out.

This 400 is more typical.

IMG_6323.jpeg
IMG_6322.jpeg
 

Seeleybc1

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 29, 2022
180
1,018
Palmer AK
Nevermind. My desire to post further responses here is a direct result of my own idiosyncratic irritation relating to the haphazard slinging of likely refutable conjecture and speculation rather than a desire to engage in what I suppose could possibly, maybe, one day, if the stars aligned, end up as an informative or erudite discussion on pipes or briar. Bowing out.

We all have the right to believe what we would like and smoke what we please anyway. Wrong or right, if the combination of those two things leads to a more pleasant experience for the person in possession of them, then that’s a win.
Frank bringin the heat with the vocab love it! Also where can i get that burger for $10?
Until proven wrong I’m still gonna say best burger driving distance from us is Gwin’s lodge, Sterling hwy. A few days of backpacking or fishing prior may or may not affect reviews
 

alaskanpiper

Enabler in Chief
May 23, 2019
9,431
43,844
Alaska
Frank bringin the heat with the vocab love it! Also where can i get that burger for $10?
Until proven wrong I’m still gonna say best burger driving distance from us is Gwin’s lodge, Sterling hwy. A few days of backpacking or fishing prior may or may not affect reviews
Tommy’s Burger Stop in Anchorage. Best burgers in town. Gwin’s ain’t bad at all. Like you said though, being beat down from chasing fish definitely has an impact, hahaha.
 

FLDRD

Lifer
Oct 13, 2021
2,236
9,051
Arkansas
I did that one, to see the grain. I usually don’t.

It came the typical Marxman reddish brown.

View attachment 274176

Algerian briar is powder soft. I avoid using even 4/0 steel wool to preserve lettering.

I cleaned it using hot water and it was varnished or shellacked (extremely rare for a Marxman) and the wood turned almost white. No grain showed whatsoever.

So I put a drop or two of grapeseed oil on a section of paper towel.

View attachment 274177

And two smokes later

View attachment 274178

Four

View attachment 274179

Five

View attachment 274180

Here’s a close up of little black spots where something was oozing out.

View attachment 274183

That is an extreme example of how fast a Marxman colors and I think I know why.

That’s a $15 “Big Boy” size Super Briar (just barely). It was an expensive pipe.

It was butter soft, so soft they quit trying to polish it and put a coat of something on it.

The coloring is because they are so porous.

What the color is, might be tannins, oil used to cure it, or tars from the smoke.

But they color to an oxblood reddish brown.
Should have shown the same side of the pipe...