Are we really losing that much with the closures of Mac Baren and Sutliff?

[badbriar]

With the soon to be ceasing of operations of Mac Baren and Sutliff, I wonder if we are really losing that much. I mean, there are still many other options for essentially similar blends from many other sources. Does anyone find any of the soon to be gone blends that are truly unique?
Anyone believe that Mac B or Sutliff may become the next McClellands? I'm sure that many thought Dunhill would become a unicorn brand, but Peterson came through and brought back many of their blends.

 

[AcesAndEights]

Cringle Flake is about the only Sutliff thing I’ll miss. Curious to see what happens with WCC, KBV, and SPC blends however.

 

[Hutch Piper]

There are a bunch of unique blends that will be missed. Mixture 79, for example. The impact will be felt greatest for the B&Ms that blend their own.

 

[jtkuga]

I'm a brand new pipe smoker, less than a month ago I started and I haven't tried anything from either company. On the one hand I thought maybe I should buy a bunch of their stuff since it will never be available again. On the other I thought, well I have never had it and you can't miss what you never had. Plus I'd hate to buy something and not even like it when it could have gone to someone else who loved it. Hopefully the market remains strong for what they produced and other producers will step in to fill the void.

 

[badbriar]

I'm a brand new pipe smoker, less than a month ago I started and I haven't tried anything from either company. On the one hand I thought maybe I should buy a bunch of their stuff since it will never be available again. On the other I thought, well I have never had it and you can't miss what you never had. Plus I'd hate to buy something and not even like it when it could have gone to someone else who loved it. Hopefully the market remains strong for what they produced and other producers will step in to fill the void.

Agree with what you said. I'm in that vein with McClellands and especially Esoterica. Although Esoterica is still producing (in micro releases), the lilklihood of scoring anything I like from them is nil. As for the likes of Penzance - I could not care less, as there are so many other exceptional blends it is not worth seeking.

 

[NookersTheCat]

I'm sure that many thought Dunhill would become a unicorn brand, but Peterson came through and brought back many of their blends.

Peterson is STG, there's been reports they will be reducing if not straight eliminating both their original Peterson and "Dunhill" blends because of this sorry to burst your bubble.
That's why I think this actually is a big deal/why people bitching about the bitching are either not grasping the magnitude or just showing off.

People don't realize A) how much of a backbone this company was in the US and B) how much the company who bought them is the backbone of the rest of the pipesmoking world.

This would be like if Amazon bought Walmart and target and said they were gonna close them but then also discontinue 80% of everything amazon themselves already sell too. Sure there'd still be Costco (C&D) and a few scraps your local supermarket could pick up. But overall this is actually a big deal

 

[AroEnglish]

Match Blends and Newmister off the top of my head.

 

[telescopes]

Yes, the loss of Sutliff is a big deal.

 

[NookersTheCat]

Cringle Flake is about the only Sutliff thing I’ll miss. Curious to see what happens with WCC, KBV, and SPC blends however.

KBV already said he's done because of this, shutting down after he gets rid of remaining/available stock. SPC is done, everything they had was made for them by Sutliff. Could their label possibly come back? Sure but it'll be made by a different blender (lankford is gone) in a different country by different people with different leaf. At that point is it even real?

WCC (if you mean Watch City) is supplied by Sutliff. As is Boswell, Country Squire, Peretti, etc etc.
Some will be bobbing and weaving by changing blends/suppliers but again, there will be alot of disruption

 

[Sobrbiker]

It’s not good, but it is what it is.

 

[Pipke]

With the soon to be ceasing of operations of Mac Baren and Sutliff, I wonder if we are really losing that much. I mean, there are still many other options for essentially similar blends from many other sources. Does anyone find any of the soon to be gone blends that are truly unique?

Yes, we are. The HH blends in particular is a sad loss. Special equipment was used to produce these. That equipment may not survive into the future. I hope not. Who else hot presses tobacco? What about the rolling equipment?

But what's done is done. Someone may step in to fill the little chuck hole that the HH blends represented in the market. Or not. I may have lost some money over this, but I'm not loosing any sleep over this too.

 

[briarblues]

Within every loss is an opportunity. Yes some ( ok a whole lot ) blends will be gone. On the other hand it forces us to expand our investigation of those that remain. I fully expect, at some time, my favorite blend might disappear. So I must adapt and find an alternative. I will surely be trying blends I have not, in the past. The world is full of oysters, so start looking for pearls.

 

[NookersTheCat]

I may have lost some money over this, but I'm not loosing any sleep over this too.

Exactly, I buy once cry once. I went on a bloody spree the last month or so. I also average only a few bowls a week so... I just shored/am shoring up my cellar then mostly buttoning down the hatches. Ofc there will always be pipe tobacco for those who didn't but it's gonna be disrupted for awhile. I'll have what I know I like in the meantime if not enough for basically forever.. along with the security of knowing whatever I end up not liking can be bartered for more of what I do.

But I'm naturally a prepper/hard asset minded guy so this all comes naturally to me. I'd rather have my money in tobacco and other commodities than sitting in a vault anyway.

 

[rick3wood]

tobacco for the consumer has been cheap to buy, STG wants prices to go up. How to do that? Limit choices and tobacco

 

[AcesAndEights]

KBV already said he's done because of this, shutting down after he gets rid of remaining/available stock. SPC is done, everything they had was made for them by Sutliff. Could their label possibly come back? Sure but it'll be made by a different blender (lankford is gone) in a different country by different people with different leaf. At that point is it even real?

Like I said, it’ll be interesting to see how it all shakes out. I’m betting more blenders will soldier on than some on here are anticipating. I could be wrong.

 

[HeavyLeadBelly]

Like I said, it’ll be interesting to see how it all shakes out. I’m betting more blenders will soldier on than some on here are anticipating. I could be wrong.

Apparently Peretti has a lot of stock so they don’t seem concerned now. I’ve heard that SPC is looking at their options and CS has been through this before.

But to be clear, the loss of Sutliff is a huge freaking deal.

 

[Mike N]

With the soon to be ceasing of operations of Mac Baren and Sutliff, I wonder if we are really losing that much. I mean, there are still many other options for essentially similar blends from many other sources. Does anyone find any of the soon to be gone blends that are truly unique?
Anyone believe that Mac B or Sutliff may become the next McClellands? I'm sure that many thought Dunhill would become a unicorn brand, but Peterson came through and brought back many of their blends.

Another issue is whether a tobacco producer will step up and tin the unique small batch blends that Sutliff was making for customers like Get Piped and numerous others. Those were not for everyone but it was cool to see something new like those offerings at pipe shows etc.

After closing the Richmond factory and giving American workers pink slips as Christmas gifts, let’s hope STG does the right thing and offers those iconic pressing and slicing machines to another maker and not to a scrap dealer.

 

[RingOfBriar]

The situation is still underestimated. When Mac Baren took over Planta most of their blends disappeared. The difference here is that Mac Baren still had competition from STG after 2018. The situation now is much more severe: not only will the Mac Baren blends disappear, but STG + Mac Baren have 60% market share in the UK, on the continent probably even more.
STG created a monopoly on pipe tobacco.
The coin cuts from Mac Baren (Dark Twist, Stockton, Club Blend, Latakia Blend, Roll Cake, Vanilla/Classic Roll Cake) are completely different from the STG coins (made from pressed/flake tobacco). Hand-picked whole-leaf Virginia is needed, I bet once production ends it will be very hard to source that again.
The machine to produce those blends was deemed problematic under occupational safety / labour protection points of view even in the early 2010s. Those blends will never return.
Even before the acquisition STG was buying >50% of Cyprian Latakia production.
After STG is finished cutting costs by removing SKUs there will be no need to increase prices due to higher margins. So I foresee 2-5 years of relatively "stable" prices minus the "normal" price, tax and excise rate increases.
After that all bets are off.
The customer just has no choice to avoid STG.
Kopp buys all raw tobacco from Orlik/STG. All Kopp flakes are made by Orlik. Salty Dogs plug from Dan Tobacco and their Roper's Roundels are made by Orlik.
Maybe we will get lucky and blends that were discontinued not due to demand but due to supply/machinery issues might reappear using the same raw tobaccos but different processing techniques, e.g. Kentucky/MCB Old Cavendish core STG coins using flake tobacco for Dark Twist and Stockton.

 

[jraggreg56]

Agree with what you said. I'm in that vein with McClellands and especially Esoterica. Although Esoterica is still producing (in micro releases), the lilklihood of scoring anything I like from them is nil. As for the likes of Penzance - I could not care less, as there are so many other exceptional blends it is not worth seeking.

We are able to purchase some of the Esoterica from our local B & M ,The Briary. Their Virginias are very good along with the VaBer Tilbury. Recently popped a tin of 2017 Penzance that I jarred and it is very good but there are several Latakia blends that are better or measure up to this.

 

[WVOldFart]

I have always liked Sutliff, especially for the Match blends. I will miss Field and Stream, Flying Dutchman, V.I.P., and Revelation. Luckily I have enough stored. What I find amusing is all the people who bad mouthed Sutliff in the past are now crying because they are finally realizing all Sutliff did for the smaller companies. What is done is done. If you decide never to buy from STG you are basically ensuring that they will cut out their pipe tobacco line and then things will really be limited. Life is the ability to adapt, so let's do that.