“The Rake” On YouTube: Recent Tour Of The Dunhill White Spot Factory in London

[sablebrush52]

Which factories do you know of that allegedly produce or produced bowls for Dunhill? I have heard that Barontini produces bowls for Dunhill and Stanwell did so as well when Stanwell was still making pipes.

Barontini was also the supplier mentioned to me decades ago. When I used to visit the Dunhill shop in Beverly Hills with my Father-In-Law back in the early 90's, the staff alluded to pipes being finished by Dunhill but many of the bowls supplied having been outsourced. They were surprisingly candid about it, but they knew my FIL, since he was a regular customer and a huge collector of the brand.

Then there's Dunhill's own admission in their 1928 deposition in court, during the fight over the amendment to the Merchandise Marks Act, that of the 300 employees, only two were turners, and those were turning out special orders, probably the OD pipes. Where did the rest of the bowls come from?

In fact, every luxury company shares that same “sour grapes” from people since the history of luxury goods. Don’t believe me? Google “is Rolex worth the money” or substitute any luxury company. Rolls Royce, Louis Vuitton etc and you will find people saying the same thing over and over: “my Kia gets me from point A to point B just fine for a fraction of the cost” , “My timex keeps time just fine and for Pennie’s on the dollar” , “my Castello sea rock smokes just as good, no , better then that piece of crap”.

From a simple utilitarian standpoint, the argument is valid. A vinyl purse will function just as well as one finished from ostrich skin.

This also reminds me of the response I got to a question I posed to a collector of ultra high end Danish pipes. I asked him if his Bo Nordh pipes smoked noticeably better than others. His response was priceless. "They smoke about the same as my Grabows."

It's not about utility. It's about accessibility and the money to purchase whatever one wants. Where that can get obnoxious is when huge displays of wealth get combined with expressions of one's innate superiority or virtue because of that accessibility.

Lotsa good pix ---

Unser Besuch bei der Dunhill Pfeifenmanufaktur in London | CIGARWORLD Blog

I enjoyed the article a lot, until the end when the writer just had to go rabid fanboy and stupidly and ignorantly proclaim the Dunhill is, "nothing more and nothing less than the “inventor” of the modern briar pipe".

The French invented the briar pipe. The French invented the basic canon of shapes, which Dunhill, like other marques, used and adapted.

Briar pipes were being smoked for 60 years before Dunhill came on the scene. Loewe established the briar pipe in London in 1856. Charatan was producing pipes in the 1870's. BBB's origins also go back to the 1850's. Barling goes back to 1812, and we now know that they started completely making some of their pipes in 1889. And let's not forget Comoy, who, with Barling went a step further than Dunhill by harvesting, seasoning, and milling their briar in the early 20th century. Their 1909 (or 1911) catalog features their Algerian operations. In retrospect, the dating of this early catalog is probably later, due the company being founded in 1914.

The point is that a LOT of other pipe making activity precedes the creation of the Dunhill pipeworks by decades.

This leaves me with the notion that a lot of the negativity surrounding Dunhill has to do with the idolization of it. It's fucking obnoxious.

I'll leave you with this thought. The best briar pipes ever made are the briar pipes you most enjoy smoking. The rest is bullshit.

 

[Alejo R.]

Were you referring to the Bruken factory in Spain? So interesting if that's the case. It has been alleged for years that Bruken turns bowls for Peterson amongst other brands but I would not be surprised if Dunhill acquires bowls from them as well. I imagine that models are created for these factories so that bowls can be fraized .Perhaps they are mortised and the draft holes are drilled as well? I wonder, if in fact, Dunhill uses bowls from Barontini, Bruken or others, is the briar used aged at the factory for some period of time to achieve an "ideal" dryness before being turned or are the bowls aged before being sent to Dunhill? Or is Dunhill getting the same briar used for less expensive pipes produced at these factories, aged for the same amount of time, just better grained or more free of flaws?

I suppose the briar grading occurs at every step, starting with the extraction of the burl. An unusually large burl, a sign of a very old plant, could indicate high-quality ebauchons, and so on throughout the entire process. At the end of the process, the ebauchons and plateaux are graded by quality, even though other defects may appear during pipe manufacturing. I believe Dunhill buys the highest quality briar possible from various Mediterranean sawmills, ready for use the minute it arrives in London. I also believe that when a bowl of a Dunhill-compatible Shape appears to be of excellent quality, it is more profitable for that factory to send it to London to be finished with a white spot.

 

[forciori]

Barontini was also the supplier mentioned to me decades ago. When I used to visit the Dunhill shop in Beverly Hills with my Father-In-Law back in the early 90's, the staff alluded to pipes being finished by Dunhill but many of the bowls supplied having been outsourced. They were surprisingly candid about it, but they knew my FIL, since he was a regular customer and a huge collector of the brand.

Then there's Dunhill's own admission in their 1928 deposition in court, during the fight over the amendment to the Merchandise Marks Act, that of the 300 employees, only two were turners, and those were turning out special orders, probably the OD pipes. Where did the rest of the bowls come from?

From a simple utilitarian standpoint, the argument is valid. A vinyl purse will function just as well as one finished from ostrich skin.

This also reminds me of the response I got to a question I posed to a collector of ultra high end Danish pipes. I asked him if his Bo Nordh pipes smoked noticeably better than others. His response was priceless. "They smoke about the same as my Grabows."

It's not about utility. It's about accessibility and the money to purchase whatever one wants. Where that can get obnoxious is when huge displays of wealth get combined with expressions of one's innate superiority or virtue because of that accessibility.


I enjoyed the article a lot, until the end when the writer just had to go rabid fanboy and stupidly and ignorantly proclaim the Dunhill is, "nothing more and nothing less than the “inventor” of the modern briar pipe".

The French invented the briar pipe. The French invented the basic canon of shapes, which Dunhill, like other marques, used and adapted.

Briar pipes were being smoked for 60 years before Dunhill came on the scene. Loewe established the briar pipe in London in 1856. Charatan was producing pipes in the 1870's. BBB's origins also go back to the 1850's. Barling goes back to 1812, and we now know that they started completely making some of their pipes in 1889. And let's not forget Comoy, who, with Barling went a step further than Dunhill by harvesting, seasoning, and milling their briar in the early 20th century. Their 1909 (or 1911) catalog features their Algerian operations. In retrospect, the dating of this early catalog is probably later, due the company being founded in 1914.

The point is that a LOT of other pipe making activity precedes the creation of the Dunhill pipeworks by decades.

This leaves me with the notion that a lot of the negativity surrounding Dunhill has to do with the idolization of it. It's fucking obnoxious.

I'll leave you with this thought. The best briar pipes ever made are the briar pipes you most enjoy smoking. The rest is bullshit.

I genuinely appreciate your perspective and respect your expertise on this. However, I feel that characterizing Probst's statement in such strong terms might be a disservice to his overall message.

From my view, he's a good person who was simply expressing gratitude for the warm reception he received. I'd prefer to avoid getting into a debate on the historical merits of the claim, as it can often turn into an unproductive rivalry.
Ultimately, he's entitled to his enthusiastic opinion, and I don't believe it's fair to dismiss the entire article — which has many excellent points — over a single sentence.

 

[Papamique]

Now, now, you can’t respond to a straightforward question with a question. You first. Just tell us the Italian makers that “do it better” than Castello? Your statement deserves a few examples.

Amorelli- straight grain 360°. Cumberland stem hand cut and very comfy in an all day clench. Smokes sweet, cool and dry. Very light and not one mistake on this pipe.

Savinelli older “Gold” series. Perfect cross grain sandblast 360°. Smokes like a magic pipe. The mouthpiece is ebonite and either hand cut or hand finished with a thin bit and confortable enough for all day. Very light briar and perfectly balanced. Drilled perfectly. 18K gold band finishes it off.

Stefano Santambrogio: perfect briar w straight grain, perfectly balanced, handcut stem that once again is comfortable to clench with the balanced light briar. Drilled perfectly and smokes sweet, cool and dry.

My Castello (the most expensive of the bunch) is the second one. I had to file down the stem and button as it was oversized for my taste and smokes no better then the others but costs much more. Hence the name Costello.

Now if you like castellos then you like castellos. If you don’t then you don’t.

The uncomfortable huge acrylic buttons and weird shapes of Castello pipes are not my thing. They have aged briar but I would take the other 3 all day long over my Castello and that’s why it is my knock around pipe.

I have over 300 pipes so if you want more examples I can dig a bit but that will cost ya. See what I did there?

 

[sablebrush52]

I genuinely appreciate your perspective and respect your expertise on this. However, I feel that characterizing Probst's statement in such strong terms might be a disservice to his overall message.

From my view, he's a good person who was simply expressing gratitude for the warm reception he received. I'd prefer to avoid getting into a debate on the historical merits of the claim, as it can often turn into an unproductive rivalry.
Ultimately, he's entitled to his enthusiastic opinion, and I don't believe it's fair to dismiss the entire article — which has many excellent points — over a single sentence.

Where did I dismiss the entire article? I stated that I enjoyed it up til that hyperbolic statement, which, along with many others in other places and other times, engenders the expressed antipathy toward the brand.
See? I can write politely if I want to. But sometimes I just like to call a spade a spade.

 

[Alejo R.]

Another thing I learned from this post is that if you want a post to get a lot of traffic and responses, you should include the word Dunhill in the title.

 

[Papamique]

Now, now, you can’t respond to a straightforward question with a question. You first. Just tell us the Italian makers that “do it better” than Castello? Your statement deserves a few examples.

See my point is, Mike, that when people say stuff like this brand is better than this one or this pipe smokes better than this one it is mainly subjective and we can piss on each others passions all day long without getting anywhere.
I normally don’t post on forums because of that but I can throw my subjective opinion out like it’s fact just like anyone else.
In truth, there is nothing wrong with Castello pipes. Many people collect and love them. I don’t. So what? I collect and love other pipes like Charatan and Dunhill and Sasieni. Others hate them. So what?
Then you have A-holes that present their opinion like it’s a fact. Smooth bores, oil cured briar, briar from a certain country, no fills, an ultra thin bit. But guess what? Not everyone cares about those things.
I thought I would come out to play is all

 

[rodo]

Wait. Is this thread about Dunhills?

 

[Alejo R.]

Wait. Is this thread about Dunhills?

Everything its about Dunhills

 

[Mike N]

Wait. Is this thread about Dunhills?

As the original poster, that’s what I intended. But the inevitable comparisons begin and…

By the way, I just checked The Rake’s Dunhill video on YouTube and it had 14,000 views in 12 days, with 580 thumbs up and 0 thumbs down. Any pipe maker, factory or retail shop should roll out the red carpet when a YouTube “vlogger” stops by…

 

[Searock Fan]

Well, since your wife won’t play with you (I don’t blame her) then I’m your huckleberry.

First, I won’t defend the Dunhill brand. No need to. They have been doing just fine without my help for over a hundred years and it is not the first time they have heard (or read) insults hurled at their company or brand.

In fact, every luxury company shares that same “sour grapes” from people since the history of luxury goods. Don’t believe me? Google “is Rolex worth the money” or substitute any luxury company. Rolls Royce, Louis Vuitton etc and you will find people saying the same thing over and over: “my Kia gets me from point A to point B just fine for a fraction of the cost” , “My timex keeps time just fine and for Pennie’s on the dollar” , “my Castello sea rock smokes just as good, no , better then that piece of crap”.

It’s all the same, yet these luxury companies continue pushing forward and commanding higher and higher prices. Weird! It’s like the mass hypnotism of these brands is somehow irresistible throughout generation after generation! Amazing.

Yes, Dunhill will continue to command high prices year after year despite, no BECAUSE of, all the sour grapes posts, YouTube videos and tic tok. Their clients know what they want and it’s not a Castello.

Speaking of Castello, I have had around 12 over the years and sold all but one that I use for fishing, hunting, camping and ricing. It’s a sea rock so my throw around pipe and the only one that has been comfortable and smoked as good as my Charatans or Dunhills. (FYI I have more older Charatans and Sasieni then Dunhills. ).

The aged briar of Castello is, in my opinion, all it has going for it and many other Italian pipes do it better. But that is just an opinion. You smoke what you like. I will do the same.

In fact the sea rock finish is somewhat of a hoax, if you ask me. You take briar that’s been sitting on a shelf for 10 years that is pitted and holds zero grain, rip it apart with a sharp tool and sell it as something special? Now THAT’S marketing.

I could go on and on but I don’t think it’s necessary (though I will if you ask me nicely).

There, how did I do? Give you what you were looking for?

Papamique

Congratulations, I would like to shake your hand. I believe yours is the longest post I've ever read where I disagreed with almost everything you said.

 

[Terry Lennox]

Does anyone else here agree with me that the shaping on this Dublin is all wrong?

 

[Searock Fan]

Bowl is kind of squat.

 

[Alejo R.]

Does anyone else here agree with me that the shaping on this Dublin is all wrong?
View attachment 413481

I don't know. I don't dislike it but I wouldn't buy it for $100 if it were another brand, much less at the Dunhill box price.

 

[Terry Lennox]

Just to be clear I think the shank is too thick for the height of the bowl. I mean it is a style some people love--a chunky feel. That's great. If this is what sells then more power to them. But it isn't what speaks to me the way the older shaping does.