How Come We Don't See Counterfeit Pipes?

[mikethompson]

One of my other interests is watches, and it seems like in that world, counterfeiting is the name of the game. For every real Rolex, there are probably thousands of fake ones. By faked, I mean watches that have a Rolex name on them, but nothing else. There are also 'homage' watches, which look like another brand, but dont carry their name.

It got me to thinking that I don't think I've ever come across a counterfeit pipe. I'm not an expert by any means, but I don't see many threads about someone buying a pipe with Peterson stamped on it, and fi ding out it is something else. I'm sure it has happened, and happens, but not nearly as widespread as I would think.

Why?

Is is because the potential pool of customers is smaller?

With the growing importance of the Chinese market, I wonder how long before it does become more widespread.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[sardonicus87]

I would imagine a multitude of factors. Probably to start with, that not a lot of people in general think about pipes or pipe smoking, and don't know much about value or not there, so it's not even on the radar (the small customer pool you mentioned). It's not like they can set up a successful street stall like you could with watches. And looking at some pipes on eBay, it can quickly become apparent which sellers there know what they have and which ones don't. I mean, if you asked random people off the street what a Rolex was, almost everyone can tell you that it's a luxury watch brand, even if they otherwise know next to nothing about watches and don't wear or collect them, but how many random people can even guess anything close to what a Dunhill would be if asked?

Then considering the cost of tooling and materials needed to make a passable fake VS the value of the real thing, there's not as much profit to be made. So if you saw counterfeits, it would be more likely to see counterfeit Dunhills or something in the $2K+ range than say, a counterfeit $100-300 Peterson (which isn't to say there aren't low-value Dunhills or aren't high-value Petersons, just that on the whole one has many more high-value than the other).

So, a big part is going to be effort vs profit. Effort could be reduced by maybe buying cheap seconds that look similar to the real thing in shape and just re-staining and re-branding them, but you're still looking at lower margins than spending say $50 to make a fake $2K Rolex that you're moving for $1K (I dunno how much a Rolex is) than spending $100 to make a fake of a $1K pipe that you're trying to move for $750 or something.

 

[georged]

Why Only Simple & Absurd "Counterfeit" Pipes Exist --- An Explanation :: Pipe Talk

1 --- If the pipe to be conterfeited was made in a production line, the machinery and tools used left "fingerprint"-type indications/evidence that is more difficult to replicate manually than the pipe is worth, money-wise. Here is an example. Consider a common wooden clothespin. It's worth...

pipesmagazine.com

 

[The Amish Tyrant]

There was a supposed fake St. Bruno over in Europe reported on another thread (whether it was a member or store never got determined). With tobacco, it's plausible. Faking pipes just doesn't seem profitable unless done on a large scale. I mean, just sell your own if you have the chops.

The relatively recent fake wine scandal was a fascinating read. Here is one article about it:

Wine fraud Rudy Kurniawan’s rise, fall, and plans for the future

Normally, when ICE sends a deportee back to their home country, the US government picks up the tab for the plane ticket. Rudy Kurniawan, however, isn’t interested in a freebee. “They’ll give him th…

nypost.com

 

[woodsroad]

One of my other interests is watches, and it seems like in that world, counterfeiting is the name of the game. For every real Rolex, there are probably thousands of fake ones. By faked, I mean watches that have a Rolex name on them, but nothing else. There are also 'homage' watches, which look like another brand, but dont carry their name.

It got me to thinking that I don't think I've ever come across a counterfeit pipe. I'm not an expert by any means, but I don't see many threads about someone buying a pipe with Peterson stamped on it, and fi ding out it is something else. I'm sure it has happened, and happens, but not nearly as widespread as I would think.

Why?

Is is because the potential pool of customers is smaller?

With the growing importance of the Chinese market, I wonder how long before it does become more widespread.

Just my 2 cents.

It’s a well-documented phenomenon known as SEP. Somebody Else’s Problem. In short, we can’t perceive things that we assume only effect others. Like alien cricket-playing robots landing on Lord’s Ground. Have you ever seen that? No, I didn’t think so.

 

[jpmcwjr]

I can't imagine there's any real money in it. Some folks may have done a couple just to put one over. Besides, a really good counterfeit would be very hard to detect.

 

[sablebrush52]

It's pretty rare, but it does happen. About 7 - 8 years ago, a seller on eBay put up an obviously fake Jess Chonowitsch, bulbous and badly shaped, with a split, and the stamp crooked. A number of us contacted eBay about the fake, including some prominent members of the larger pipe community. Of course, eBay did nothing and some sucker bought the dingus for $8300. The same seller also put up some fake Eltangs. Eltang was contacted and he declared the pipes fakes and contacted ebay. They did nothing and the pipes sold.
The seller eventually disappeared from eBay.

The End...

It's rare because there's very little money in it. You have to go for the high hanging fruit to make passing fakes to worth the effort.

 

[mikethompson]

Thanks for the responses as always guys.

I'm just picturing someone making a metal stamp with Dunhill or Barling on it, and stamping any old briar.

Like alien cricket-playing robots landing on Lord’s Ground. Have you ever seen that? No, I didn’t think so.

You weren't there Dan!

 

[Hupp]

My last post was removed so I’ll try again. Here is a pic of a counterfeit Dunhill on ebay right now.

 

[Alejo R.]

One of my other interests is watches, and it seems like in that world, counterfeiting is the name of the game. For every real Rolex, there are probably thousands of fake ones. By faked, I mean watches that have a Rolex name on them, but nothing else. There are also 'homage' watches, which look like another brand, but dont carry their name.

It got me to thinking that I don't think I've ever come across a counterfeit pipe. I'm not an expert by any means, but I don't see many threads about someone buying a pipe with Peterson stamped on it, and fi ding out it is something else. I'm sure it has happened, and happens, but not nearly as widespread as I would think.

Why?

Is is because the potential pool of customers is smaller?

With the growing importance of the Chinese market, I wonder how long before it does become more widespread.

Just my 2 cents.

Pipes do not function as a status symbol outside of very small circles. Watches are that, although fake watches only fool those who have no idea about watches. But there are always those who want to cheat and get a few dollars from where they shouldn't. There are articles about fake Dunhill pipes on pipedia. In this same forum there is a post about a dubious character in the industry who bought old Britwoods and made them reborn with the seal of the famous Jermyn Street house.

 

[HeavyLeadBelly]

There’s more people out there desiring a Rolex than a Dunhill. So counterfeiters will make what’s more likely to sell.

 

[Briar Lee]

I own a huge, perfectly hand made, fill free, beautifully polished and finished, Duke of Wellington three quarter bent pipe with an oval shank, oval saddle stem, with water trap and hollowed condensation chambers in shank and stem bottom, of the highest workmanship imaginable.

It also has the best stem to shank fit of a push bit I’ve ever seen, the best of any pipe I own. It snicks on like a little Cadillac door shutting. It’s fun just to make it do that.

The bit is terrible, the pipe doesn’t balance or hang right. That part is just horrible. I’ve been filing on it for two years trying to get it to clench a little.



No brand name, but

The back story is I bought this on the forum from a member in Germany, for $100, and it cost him about $25 to ship it, and when I posted it the British pipe experts said how wrong everything was to have been a true Dunhill factory reject, and he offered me a refund of my $100 and I keep the pipe. He’d bought it used years ago and forgot where, and from whom.

I like to shave every morning knowing I’ve not cheated or stole one thing in my entire life, so I said no. I’d make a poor thief starting out fresh now.

If somebody with incredible skills sat down and made a huge, monster of a pipe from a perfect piece of briar and gave up making a good button and inlaid a perfect white spot then stamped NOT FOR SALE with a ten dollar set of Harbor Frieght steel stamps—-I want that in my stash!

My own theory is the maker stamped it and took it home instead of trashing it.

If it was a shotgun it would be an employee gun.

But one thing I know, is that pipe wasn’t sold as a Dunhill, the first time.

It’s a strange counterfeit.

It would be worth more with a new replacement stem.

 

[Snook]

I would think it's partially because pipes are such a niche market, and also because their value is relatively low compared to watches/purses/other items that can sell for tens of thousands of dollars. Just not worth the scammer's time.

 

[Briar Lee]

Here’s why there are no known counterfeit Savinelli pipes.



Whatever it costs to make that in Italy, would be much cheaper in China.

Except for the imported Italian briar.

Plus you’d have to sell enough to pay for the new Chinese pipe factory.

The Savenelli factory has been there, awhile.

 

[olkofri]

Never seen one, really? Wasn't IDEA Pipes sending free Savinelli counterfeits to you guys not long ago?

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

Pipes are just way too niche.

 

[Alejo R.]

Here’s why there are no known counterfeit Savinelli pipes.

View attachment 281640

Whatever it costs to make that in Italy, would be much cheaper in China.

Except for the imported Italian briar.

Plus you’d have to sell enough to pay for the new Chinese pipe factory.

The Savenelli factory has been there, awhile.

The idea of counterfeiting does not target middle or low segment goods. Except in poor countries, where they may sell you a fake Coca Cola. The idea is to make something that costs 10, that imitates something that is worth 1000 in order to sell it for 50 to someone who wants to have the product that is worth 1000 but cannot or does not want to pay for it. Only marginally does it affect some unsuspecting person in the form of a scam who buys the product believing it to be real. In the world of pipes, it does not apply because it is difficult to use them as a sign of status, the interest group is small and well informed. It is difficult for them to pass as true in a forum or in a pipa club meeting. All that remains is to try the scam. If I were going to fake pipes, I'd buy old Britwoods and try to pass them off as Dunhills. I would publish them as a pipe made in England as like I didn't know anything about pipes at a price between 50 and 100 with immediate purchase.

 

[smudgersmissingleg]

There was that whole Astleys debacle a few years back. Here's a thread on the subject from about a decade ago.

Astley Pipes = Re-Stamped Estate Pipes (Photos) :: General Pipe Smoking Discussion

A recent post on the old "Astley Assertion in Pipedia" thread ( http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/astley-assertion-in-pipedia ) seems to give photographic proof of the assertion that "Astley" pipes being sold by James Upshall Co on ebay are really restamped estate pipes. It is truly...

pipesmagazine.com

 

[Searock Fan]

The reason we don't see counterfeit pipes is simple. If they're well done we never know they're counterfeit.

 

[kcghost]

I never encountered a real counterfeit myself, but I am aware of many internet cheats who try to pass off pipes authentic and genuine when it clearly has a replacement stem and other anomalous actions.